skywalker kickback and bind issue


#1

As the title says my skywalker has kickback. It also slips on binds which is frustrating. It is the D bearing version. Even if I silicone it so that the silicone sits flush with the edge of the recess it still has kickback. I am using a difeyo Koncave and kitty fat. Even kitty fat won’t help it bind so I put in some snow tires and now the string rubs and snags in the middle of spins. What do I do? Are there any other response bearing or string options?


#2

Describe what you mean by kickback.


(Former National 4A Champion) #3

Imagine a yoyo with an axle the thickness of a needle and a large gap. It wouldn’t unwind very quickly would it. That is an extreme example of kickback. I hope you follow that. It is more important for 4a than 1a generally I think.

The only thing I can think that you problem is is this: You’re bind is loose so that when you throw it, it sort of jams up and causes some kickback. Wind the yoyo tightly by hand. Throw it down and if it has kickback on that throw, then I don’t know what your problem is.

Also, pictures would help.


#4

Is that what kickback is?

I’ve always thought it was the RESISTANCE to unwinding. With D bearing yoyos, when you throw the breakaway, the yoyo has a tendency to go more towards your NTH side than you’re accustomed to, and takes a while to hit the end of the string.

It’s hard to describe, but you can sure feel it.

HOWEVER, the phenomenon I’m describing may not be “kickback” and I’ve been using the wrong term for it. It’s easily feelable and detectable, but maybe I need to learn a new label for it.


#5

Or think about the phenomenon I’m describing on a front throw instead of the breakaway:

Using your normal technique, you throw down a front throw sleeper. You’re used to it going more or less out a little bit and down.

With a yoyo exhibiting what I’ve been calling kickback (perhaps incorrectly), that exact same throw will send the yoyo right towards your shins.


(Former National 4A Champion) #6

Your description is much better than mine. That is exactly what kickback is.

I meant that this would cause an effect similar to kickback. Do you follow me?


#7

Yup! And in fact, it’s a matter of bad reading on my part. I did indeed read your description, Philip, but my brain saw, “it would unwind very quickly” instead of “it wouldn’t”. :wink: So your description was fine all along, and my reading was not!


#8

To me, and traditionally, kickback is like when you throw a front sleeper, and instead of it ending vertical, it will tend to swing behind you. Yoyos with a large gap, as in a beefcake setup will exhibit this, also some HSPIN yoyos w/the 5 mm wide bearing in my own experience. I’ve seen other people use the term to describe something else, which is why I asked him to define it. I want to know what his issue is.


#9

Beefcake was done with smaller-diameter bearings, too. Basically anything that keeps the majority of wraps around a smaller diameter will probably exhibit this kickback.

Without really knowing details of the physics behind it, it seems that what’s happening is that the energy imparted by the throw isn’t translating strictly into spin plus downward momentum. The energy has to go somewhere, so that lateral motion is added to the mix so that all energy ends up being consumed.

The same small diameter that creates kickback also creates a more gentle arrival at the end of the string that some people dig. So it’s not all just “this is bad”. A little bit of kickback can be managed.

It is also probably independent of the slipping bind issue. If anything, more response will equal MORE kickback, not less. Fixing the response with brand-new flush-sitting silicone won’t take away from the kickback.


(Former National 4A Champion) #10

I don’t think so. Old response takes up less space than new, sort of creating the same effect as a wider gap.

What I don’t get is how a yoyo can have slippy binds and too much kickback at the same time.

Are snow tires the correct pads for the skywalker? If they aren’t, that would explain the last part.


#11

The logic I’m following is this: When your response is slippy, the yoyo has a tendency to rocket straight down and not collect much spin at all. All the extra energy is going into the downward trajectory of the yoyo.

The yoyo needs to unwind “tightly” for that energy to translate into kickback.


(Former National 4A Champion) #12

So you agree with me right?


#13

Yes!

Also, I think you’re right to question the snow tires… they shouldn’t work in a Skywalker I wouldn’t think.


#14

That is exactly what is happening but when I bind I can feel it slip and not catch the string. Since it was slipping on binds I thought that a grippier response would help my binds so I added the snow tires to one half thinking that that would give better binds(still didn’t work). To answer GregPs question snow tires will fit in the skywalkers recess but are a bit to thick so they stick out and rub against the string during play. Hope this helps ,sorry for the bad wording in my last post.


#15

I can almost assure you that Snow Tires are not going to work in a Skywalker. If you do not want to pour silicone, which is what I would highly recommend then you could try the One Drop Flow Grooves. They will work great. I would start with the “Slim Pads” and if they are to thin switch to the “Standard Flow Grooves”

If your response is sticking above the response groove, which I suspect it might be, then what is happening to your YoYo when you throw it does not surprise me a bit.


#16

I had a D bearing Skywalker and the binds were pretty slippy as well. I believe that was just an issue with the yoyo in general. Similarly, I’ve found that many D bearing yoyos (and the small bearing Genesis) have this type of kickback issue you are describing when using strings that are either too thin or too thick. I’m not sure anything will solve the binding issue on the Skywalker (I tried a lot of different strings and bearings) but you may be able to find a string that works best for you to help with the kickback.

Also, I don’t think Snow Tires fit properly in VsNYYC. I would just silicone it again and try a flat bearing with the fat kitty.