PayPal friends and family(again)

Oh yes, I totally agree with this 100%!

What I’m talking about though, is somone lying. Getting exactly what was described but lying so they can get their money back and scam the system.

Like i said, this has never happened to me in all the years I’ve been selling…but the fear is always there.


I’d never use F+F for buying things from people online; F+F is for exchanging money among friends. I agree with the sentiment of this thread to ban F+F as an option for business transactions among relative strangers. Anybody who demands F+F is either shady, trying to absolve themselves of seller responsibility, or just penny pinching cheap. 3% on a yoyo purchase? Come on, why is that even an issue?


I once made a claim against someone who sold me an as-is PS2 on eBay. The listing didn’t detail the damage to the unit, and in fact had all of the stock bullet points (* plays cds, movies, playstation games, etc). The PS2 naturally couldn’t do any of these things, as either the disc reader or the unit itself was damaged, which is why I won the claim.

It was an interesting and disappointing experience - and I had to close my eBay account afterwards since there was some bad feedback from the seller on it. I’m not sure what their game was - maybe buying un-refurbished broken models and hoping people would get taken in, like myself? eBay/Paypal did require that I mail it back (with tracking) before refunding my money, by the way.

Later I bought a new PS2 from a best buy. I think it cost me $25 more than my bad experience on eBay.

This is doubly true when many people are using needlessly expensive shipping methods. You can get that 3% back almost instantly by using the correct type of shipping and packaging materials.


I hate to play devil’s advocate on this one, but don’t you expect an “as is” item to need repairing? A lot of people buy cheap and broken stuff online, repair, and flip them for profit. People don’t bid high on broken stuff because it isn’t worth it. Good for you for getting a refund on a falsely advertised product, but I don’t think you were the intended type of buyer.

Well the listing said “plays CDs”, which it wouldn’t do. If it said “can play CDs after repair” that’d be different. I’d assume a listing that says what that listing said was for a working product.


Yea, which is why he won the claim. Just saying, I’m in the retro game market, and “as is” basically means broken. Apparently a lot of the fixes are easy, so guys make out by buying cheap, quickly repairing, and flipping them. I’d say that guy learned his lesson not to falsely advertise though.


I’m really not sure. This was over a decade ago, but It didn’t seem marked down enough to be for repair-resellers (I think it was $125 shipped instead of the $150 retail at the time - that seems like a really slim margin for a broken item) and the listing was mostly copy-pasted with back of the box info about what a PS2 is, with stock photos.

Really seems like it was intended to blend into the working PS2 listings to me.

I guess I learned my lesson as well since I haven’t used eBay at all since that happened.


Oh, nvm then. I’m thinking more recently where the ps2 is now a retro collector’s system.


I’m a bit more passive aggressive, unless the ad states “add the fees for G&S”, I default to a G&S payment. If the seller doesn’t like it, they can refund and I can report to PayPal the reason for refund is the seller posted a price then asked me to pay to cover G&S charge.

I also have a hard pass on posts that are “F&F only” or “add fees for G&S”


I’ve begun to do that too, tbh. I haven’t had anyone pitch a fit yet luckily.


I figure it is on them. I’m using the service the way it is intended, they are breaking the rules, so, if they want to complain…


My following opinion is only in regard to selling yoyos privately (non-commercial).

From the buyers perspective, I agree. There are no downsides to PayPal G&S and I would not buy without it. Sure, I, as a buyer, might have to pay the fees, but that is worth the insurance, buyer protection etc. But, this is against the terms and services of PP as mentioned here already.

I also agree that if a service like PP is used, the service costs should be paid.

That said, from a private sellers perspective, accepting PP G&S bares some risks to get scammed. The buyer can just claim that the package the seller sent was empty and PP will happily return the money and the seller just lost the yoyo plus the money.

So, the reason for a private seller to prefer F&F does not necessarily have to be motivated by ill-intentions.

Would I buy privately from a seller that I don’t know in person with F&F? No, I would not. But I also would not automatically assume malicious intentions just because the seller asks for F&F.

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Yes, and that’s why as a general rule, businesses (or private sellers who sell a lot) build the cost of this risk into their prices. As individuals who only sell things occasionally, choosing how to shoulder this risk maybe isn’t so obvious (or painless). But unfortunately, it is a risk inherent to being a seller.

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That’s what I meant. G&S protects the buyer, but completely unprotects the seller:(

If someone pays you with F&F and funds it with a credit card, they can still hit you with a chargeback through their financial institution. That isn’t a Paypal dispute, but selling things that way doesn’t actually protect the seller from fraudulent buyers.

If you sell via G&S and you provide confirmation that the item was shipped and delivered, Paypal actually provides some protection against some types of buyer claims and chargebacks.


But that’s it a bit tedious and potential scammers wont do it at all. If you are paying G&S you could just press a button, say the box was empty and boom, you get the money back.

Has anyone ever had that happen? The scammers I’ve seen called out have all been sellers, if I’m recalling correctly.

I think it’s more common for people who do a lot of selling on say, ebay, etc with goods that have high resale value. Never encountered it personally.

Issuing a chargeback isn’t really that much harder than opening a paypal dispute, though.


I mean, probably it does not happen on a normal basis, but the possibility is there.

But does a chargeback from your bank remove the money sent to the seller’s PayPal account? What if the buyer payed with PayPal balance?

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