Nah man, that is actually relevant to the topic, since it implies that shipping a smooth yoyo actually hurts the yoyo design. Id agree with you though, I hate tight bearing seats because it makes me less willing to take apart the yoyo in fear that my “tune up” will wind up making the yoyo worse than before.
To readdress the original question, the answer is probably no. Yoyos with little to no vibe are more optimized to spin from a physical standpoint. Focusing on smoothness may limit design possibilities, but this is just because another variable of precision has been introduced and has become another standard to expect in a modern yoyo. Id argue that eliminating as much vibe as possible has allowed modern yoyos to be as precise as they are today. Without people caring, you would still see the same type of yoyos you did 10+ years ago.
Can anybody think of a real example of a vibe-prone design that they like for the feel beyond modern designs? (not a rhetorical question)
Specifically what can happen is that the process of removing a tight bearing can damage the bearing post and then this causes vibe because it takes very very little to be off with the post to induce vibe.
It seems this may explain the minor vibe some of my non ODs develop. I’m always puzzled and slightly annoyed when a mint yoyo that’s never been hit, dinged, or scratched will develop vibe after I have to remove bearing for maintenance. Then you’ve got the ones that start squeaking when you unscrew em. Personally, I love having the confidence in my ODs to just spin the sucka apart, pop in some SEs, drop in a bearing and spin it back together. Never once with any OD have I stressed trying to wiggle the bearing off a 100$ throw with some pliers. Just hoping I don’t damage the thing in the process and praying it’s still smooth when get it back together.
The idea of gripping pliers onto a bearing has always made me cringe. I did it once and damaged an expensive bearing beyond repair, and have since always tried to wriggle it out carefully with a proper bearing removal tool.
In all my time playing yoyo ive never had to change a bearing out on the go. Once they get loud and stay loud I know I need to clean it, but if you maintain your yoyos even partially I dont think you should ever have to do so on the go unless you are playing at the beach or something.
Interesting, what’s a good / notable / standout example of where the design causes this to happen?
Definitely agreed, but couldn’t the opposite case be true as well? If the bearing post is too loose, the bearing doesn’t get centered in the yo-yo because it is floating around in there and when the yo-yo is closed it is no longer symmetric to the center?
Yes for sure. If it’s too loose, then you get vibe. Depending on the design of the yoyo, how loose it can be varies. This is why most yoyo makers have decided to error on the side of tight because if you miss, the yoyo still ships smooth. If you miss on the loose side, the yoyo is dead on arrival.
The general characteristics that we have found that make yoyos less tolerant of error are being wide in relation to diameter (80% and up) and having lots of axial rim weight.
Usually designs that are impossible to make smooth don’t make it into production so I can’t give you an example except an old one from Big Brother. They released the prototype run and called the yoyo the “The Flaw” because it had severe pulse vibe. This was the first example of this we had come across. Since then we have seen many. Generally we know how to avoid it when we design, but many of our clients have run into it. And so the topic of the thread is somewhat on point in that since we know what causes it, we tend to design to avoid it which means that we don’t do certain kinds of designs. The physics isn’t fully understood and we have worked with a PHD physicist on this and we still aren’t 100% certain. But again the general principle is wide and axial rim weight are what causes this.
Is the width issue because it gives the yo-yo a less definite principle axis? In general, having the moment of inertia the largest along one axis makes rotation more stable. A narrow yo-yo has a large moment of inertia around the rotation axis, and small around other axes. As it gets wider, this one axis is less “special,” and so is less stable. Now, I don’t know if it is this instability that leads to vibe. Empirical experience is much more useful here than theory.
(My Sugar Glider has a 84% width to diameter ratio and is super smooth. And fun.)
We view it like trying to spin a log - it would be easy for it to be less stable.
The Sugar Glider is wide, but you’ll notice it has very little axial rim weight to compensate. And it’s a very smooth and tolerant model - a pleasure to produce.
So yeah it’s complicated because it’s some combination of things. Our next yoyo has 100% width to diameter (very wide) but still smooth because of the lack of axial rim weight.
And this is something we always think about while designing - it sucks to discover this after you make a prototype.
And the rim weight it has is more to the center, not out on the thin wings. I suspect it’s not the total width that matters, but how much weight is located at that large width.
