I have long speculated that in striving to make yoyos silky smooth, compromises have to be made to the design. There are a few recent examples of this, the G2 TiSHee, and the Wank*r.
My question is does the overall play of the yoyo suffer as a result?
Should we be less obsessed with smoothness and open up opportunities for designs that are more difficult to machine and therefore not 100% smooth?
Waitā¦ what? What does āsmoothnessā mean? Vibe?
Iām not really convinced any design couldnāt be
ā¦ with todayās CNC machining? I dispute the idea that any ādesignā is fundamentally incompatible with being (more or less) totally vibe free?
The 2 examples you gave are titanium yoyos. With the price that they carry, they have to be damn smooth when you get one.
That said, itās just that over the years that the manufacturing got better, our standards have too. Itās the same in any industry. Nowadays you could design almost any yoyo and, although not all designs are optimal, it would spin at the very least. How good it could be? Thatās subjective.
On top of that, over the years people have worked out some design kinks that could be there. We know what attributes to better play performance.
(Lastly, the cost of manufacturing has dropped. What couldāve been a top dollar yoyo back in the day is now a lot cheaper, partly thanks to competitive markets.)
Thatās just how I see it, and am welcome to a change of mind if Iām wrong about something.
I donāt know much about machining, but it does appear that there are practical constraints and limits, and that not everything can be done. Perhaps it is more prevalent in titanium yoyos because it is difficult to machine, but I recall that the Corruption also underwent design changes due to machining constraints.
One potential reason for redesigns (at least for large scale production) is streamlining the design so they can make them faster and cheaper, maybe even more consistently. Itās not that it canāt be done. Just easier.
Why donāt we ask @The_Machinist? What makes a yo-yo design āhard to keep vibe freeā? Is that a thing?
I know @MarkD has indicated certain CAD ā¦ erā¦ letās sayā¦ flourishesā¦ can result in a design thatās basically impossible to machine, or has too-sharp edges, but is that the same as ānot smooth / will have vibeā?
This isnāt ātheā answer. But something I found interesting a year or so ago.
Yoyorecreation came out with a pretty expensive yoyo(sorry the name escapes me at the moment?).
In the description of the yoyo; they stated that the extreme power of the yoyo results in a noticeable vibe. And that the vibe is not a defect.
The description went on to say, āIf you are looking for a vibe free yoyo; look elsewhereā.
ā¦ So; what I got out of that was simple. They machined a certain design and when they let their guys throw the protos; although they were not dead smooth; they played like Beasts. And the top level testers could give a ratsā rear ended about the side effect of the design.
Kinda like having a 55 Chevy with a 327. With an Edlebrock high rise manifold; running two dual feed Hollyās with a 3/4 cam and some Blackjack headers. Nitros oxide and a 411 rear end and a 7 speed paddle tranny and some fat rubber. Not as smooth as a BMW but it āwill get you thereā
ā¦ After noticing how things have changed over the last 20 something years; I have a potentially reasonable view of why things āareā the way they currently are.
Back in the late 90ās; I would go to Goldenapple to buy a yoyo. Bill would let me go behind the counter and try yo-yos until I found one that āworked for meā. And it was not necessarily the smoothest. It was just the one I liked the best. Vibe free yo-yos were Rare in 1998.
And few people if anyone; cared. I was just starting my modding pastime and paid very close attention to what āeverybody making or modding yo-yos was doing.
A lot of fixed axle stuff back then and a vibe free yoyo was only a miracle or in your dreams; lol.
People made yo-yos and people bought yo-yos. And people threw the yo-yos and hardly a word was mentioned unless your yoyo was shaking your teeth loose.
It was very different way back then. People focused on getting better. And that just seemed more important than spending time whining about āvibeā.
Then; as the years went by; a new phenomenon began to develop. Smoothness/good; vibes/bad.
No matter how well the yoyo plays; if it is not perfectly smooth or at least close to it; it is consider defective. And the more you may pay for a yoyo; the more critical it is. If you pay $30 for a yoyo; well; a little vibe is a pass. It if you pay $300 for a Ti yoyo; that sucker better be perfectš¤
ā¦So; we see these posts about, āMy yoyo is not dead smooth. Should I send it back? It chatters a little bit when I put my fingernail against the edge. Iām afraid to unscrew my yoyo; because people tell me that it will mess it up and it will vibe more once I put it back together. My friendsā yoyo is smoother than mine. Is mine a defect? Did I get robbed? What should I do? <> ad infinitumā¦
The focus as of late; is not to get the powerful, seriously playing yoyo. It is more about wanting a perfectly vibe free yoyo; no matter what you paid for it or itās a crime and you are going to call the Cops!
The people that make a living; making and selling yo-yos; have to step up their āAā grade game. Because they know more people are gonna cry and less people are gonna buy; if the yo-yos arenāt dead nuts.
Iām sure at least a few machine shops stay away from more powerful designs; simply because more people are compelled to whine about a slight shake; instead of just tearing up some trick combos and saying, āDamn; this yoyo is seriously Badd Ash!
What is the real answer?
I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect very smooth yo-yos; regardless of price; where modern machine technology is involved. But that being said; I think people seem to be conditioned into thinking if a yoyo isnāt perfectly Vibe free; that using it will crush their urge to have yoyo related fun. And they will prolly die screaming in a giant puddle of sad tears.
I will share something with you I have mentioned before. Over the last 20 years; I have been fortunate enough to talk to some of the very best players on Earth. I have sat down to lunch with up to 8 or 9 top shelf players; for a few hours; here and there. NEVER in 20 years; has the subject or concern about yoyo smoothness; come up in conversation. Ever.
Bottom lineā¦ Expect smooth yo-yos. But focus more on playing the yo-yos and less on being anal about miracle smooth yo-yos.
Play more with yo-yos and do not ordain yourself to be the last line Quality Control Inspector.
Something like that.
TL;DR.
In all seriousness, this is it. Vibe doesnāt kill anyone, let alone hinder your playing. Itās just life with a yoyo.
Thanks for this @yoyodoc, this should be a pinned post.
Iāve even heard top level players like Evan Nagao mention that he likes the yoyo to have a little vibe, because he can more easily tell how fast the yoyo is still spinning as it slows down during combos.
@yoyodoc always kills it with the long posts. Definitely one of my favorite people to read on here.
I would have guessed that if both halves were perfectly symmetrical, same weight, and the axle was perfectly centered, this would produce a perfectly smooth spin.
So if the above is factual then no the obsession for smoothness is not hurting design. Also I donāt see why this would be either bad or too much to ask, one could say itās just quality control.
Enjoy Sade as you ponder:
I personally barely notice vibe that isnāt significant, mostly because you have to stop and hold the yo-yo still and actually focus your attention on it to notice instead of doing tricks with it. And even when I do that if itās not immediately obvious Iām not 100% sure if itās there because Iāve never been able to really discern vibe with a āfingernail test.ā Then again the very tips of my fingers donāt have feeling because of my chemotherapy so take that for what itās worth.
I also agree that completely smooth yo-yos in single colors have the issue of you not being able to tell when your yo-yo is slowing down.
I was into yoing in the early 2000ās. Was vide and smoothness even something discussed back then? I donāt have the greatest memoryā¦I donāt remember ever hearing anyone talk about vibe though. Maybe Iāve just forgotten.
Thatās one of the first things I noticed when I got back into it recently after not touching a yo in 15āish years. How incredibly smooth my first metal throws were (a duncan barracuda and strix). My goodness how far yoyos have come!
I look at ādead smoothā as more of a novelty. If it plays great on the string and doesnt pass the fingernail test, i could care less.
I had a pelican that was so smooth, that i couldnt tell when its spin was dying.
Absolutely not.
I understand that it makes yo-yo manufacturing a lot more difficult, but then what the hell am I paying $120 for?
Iām lucky to live near the Duncan booth at Disney Springs, whenever I buy a new throw there I test at least 3 of the same model, I always find one thatās smoother than the other two, and the Demonstrator on duty always agrees. I also have an extensive No Jive collection, I can adjust the hex nut or even switch out a half to achieve near perfect balance/no vibe. Iām obsessed with perfection with my throws, because Iāve got perfect throws. Iāve been throwing the TiVayder for a month, going back to the WideSport doesnāt feel like it used to. Ever seen that episode of Rick and Morty when Morty experiences ātrue levelā then everything else seems crooked? Thatās me now that I have a TiVayder.
Yoyo buyers will never be less obsessed about any feature you can come up with. Pretty sure obsession is the whole point.
Gotta keep selling new yo-yos somehow.
In theory this should be true. I think the main source of vibe comes from not having the axle hole drilled perfectly in the middle or it being slightly tilted. Someone more experienced with yoyo machining can correct me if im wrong.
As far as caring about vibe or not, as long as I canāt feel it on the string I donāt really care if the yoyo has fingernail vibe. I still test it on every new throw I get and am more happy when the yoyo is ādead smoothā. I get it, in the past yoyos had more vibe, it doesnt really matter, etc, but as technology gets better, the standards are increased. If anything, the obsession with smoothness/vibe has helped yoyo design by encouraging manufacturers to make more precise yoyos. Quite simply, vibe is a side effect of imperfection. Why not embrace the progress that has been made?
Itās funny, people always say they like yoyos with soul. I feel like some vibe adds to a yoyos soul. Maybe soul isnāt the right word, more like character. I like yoyos that are smooth, they definitely feel nice to throw, but a hint of vibe gives a yoyo character. It takes a sophisticated person to appreciate what the yoyo with vibe has to offer. #yoyoswithvibeneedlovetoo
However, I do agree that with this day and age, having a yoyo vibe shouldnāt even happen with our technology, unless dinged or whatever, but out of the factory it should be glass.