Well said!
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Very well said. Throwing is pure meditation and focus work for me. The level of technical complexity should be irrelevant.
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Ed brings up what I think the most important point in the thread. In the minds of 99% of regular people, the yoyo returning to the hand is one of its most fundamental characteristics - and often an inseparable one in the minds of most. Starting the masses on unresponsive yoyos would require such a shift and some type of massive introduction that I’m not sure is really possible without millions of dollars (or more) poured into marketing to change what most people believe to be a core aspect of this toy. And in the end, it’s not worth it - like he said, most parents or people buying the yoyo are choosing between that and some other classic toy or game to preoccupy their kid or themselves/get them away from literally any screen. If they stick with it enough eventually, they’ll naturally discover unresponsive throwing with time. Like @yoyodoc I definitely think the options for first responsive throws could be better. Who knows how many people who would’ve otherwise loved yoyoing quit prematurely because the Imperial is trash? That’s where the SnapBack would come in handy. I definitely think there should be a push from the industry to get these better quality but still inexpensive options into physical stores (and market them well)… I think that’s the big, ultimate takeaway from this thread that people (esp. those manufacturing throws) should be paying attention to.
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I really think in this topic everyone that commented is right because we all live the yoyo hobby in a different perspective, there is the technical people, the collectionist, the 0a thrower and all different type of people here.
In my opinion it was cool if the shops had a bit of variety and maybe in the “yoyo section” (and guys you have to feel lucky as between London UK and Italy I never have seen a butterfly or a yoyo in a shop) there was some stuff fixed axl and some stuff with a bearing, as Ed said people doesn’t even know that you can bind a yoyo, I left it one to a friend of mine he tried to throw it it didn’t went back and said “it’s broken”, so or you leave a leaflet inside explaining that you have to bind or people will think to have bought a defective product.
For what concern me when I started lot of years ago, I did not even knew what a bind was, a friend of mine gift me a video of Suzuki at the world and a fast 201 (if i remember well), when I see I start to have fun I did my research online and the rest is history.
I think we all need a place to start and a yoyo that goes back in hand at the beginning give the most satisfaction (my girlfriend did a walk the dog with a responsive and then get back to her hand) this “go back to the hand” give a sense of immediate satisfaction because you actually feel like “completed” the trick then if someone will be interested to explore will discover the whole world and also that to do more complicate tricks need to bind.
Probably the imperial is quite very old now but I will not cancel the possibility to have “normal” yoyos in the market.
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Case in point: 8 year old granddaughter.
Only child with divorced parents. Father very supportive. Financially upper middle class.
Granddaughter has always been smothered with toys throughout the year, most on the expensive side.
She has always had smartphones and ipads - always used for games and entertainment.
In second grade. Has great difficulty reading. Only passed 1st grade with much tutoring from my grade school teacher wife.
I try to encourage granddaughter with non-battery toys: books, construction, nice harmonica, and YOYO, etc. She is not interested.
Several months ago, I tried to interest her by playing with a Duncan Pulse while at a pretty nice restaurant. I gave here a pulse and a Yomega Brain.
Follow up: no interest in anything that requires intellectual thought.
Yoyos are not competition for the 24/7 entertainment smartphones and ipads make available.
Rant off…
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I think starter kits should be more widely available in big box stores. Maybe that’s the next step. It’s how I started (Sage pack that came with both bearings, lubes, and 10 extra strings), but I had to seek it out for myself after discovering modern yoyoing online. If I had seen something like that in a store, I might have been intrigued and gotten into this sooner.
In any case, it’s always nice to have options. I also like the idea of putting a QR code that links to tutorials and instructions. I got a Sweets Kendama at Target and they actually have a QR code on the Kendama itself that takes you to their tutorials. I figure if people are buying a Kendama, an unresponsive yoyo isn’t much of a stretch.
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I love this point so much. Basic responsive throws are so accessible and easy to use for the greatest number of people, and are the “gateway” to learning more if they want to. It’s kind of an even playing field for first timers and an easy enough place to start that doesn’t require the work of learning how to bind, etc. While unresponsive yoyos on the shelves of places like Walmart or Target would def be cool, it’s opening people up for disappointment and not experiencing the satisfaction of getting that yoyo back to your hand for the first time. I think a great solution to this would be the idea of starter kits that @Shapapy mentioned (which I also love the idea of) - it COMES responsive so you can experience that satisfaction of a classic yoyo, but hey, scan this QR code to see what this thing can REALLY do, pop the other included bearing in and give it a go.
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I am an example of this, I started playing seriously with a Yoyofactory velocity which had a little wheel where you can change the response from responsive to more or less unresponsive.
At the beginning I did not know how to bind or throw sideways properly and learn the pictures tricks and the trapeze was a struggle without setup the yoyo in “responsive position”, imagine every throw mean roll the string again in the yoyo every single second and also release the tension of the string every 2 throw because it get all messed up.
After this little experiment, I started using the Velocity in responsive mode and the frustration went away, I learned the basics and how to bind and then the trapeze, even after learnt the bind I kept the yoyo in half responsive way so I can help myself, after some time I had a safe bind and sideway throw and then I eventually left the velocity in unresponsive but for the first weeks it was so helpful to avoid every time to roll the string back inside the yoyo which was super boring
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Best beginner yoyo in the game. Went through 4-5 of these until I made the jump to the plastic grind machine which almost made me quick yoyoing because binding was so frustrating at first.
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Now that’s a model I’ve never seen before.
Proof I wasn’t BSing; here are some classics:
The XT:
The Sage:
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That’s what the Pro Z was I used to see at Walmart. It came with 2 bearings and spacers so it could be a classic responsive or spacers added and full C added to play unresponsive. It was $9.00 I think. Haven’t seen them there in five years.
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Pro-Z is still a guilty pleasure
These were all bought at Target or Walmart.
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WARNING: Probably a long post. I’ll try to be brief (or at least try)
An example of changing available product. Not too many years ago, in my town Fritos were considered Mexican food. Where I worked began outsourcing to various countries (I’m using Mexico as an example). With this outsourcing there involved travel. The locals were exposed to authentic Mexican food in travels and families that came to the area wanted ingredients to make the food they were accustom to having. Eventually the stores started carrying the ingredients necessary. Change driven by demand.
Long story short - How about developing school programs “selling” yo-yos as a gym class activity involving motor skills, blah, blah blah… Kids want yo-yos. They buy want they want. Stores carry what they want. (Nothing new kinda an old school Duncan marketing tool.)
In the meantime. I will provide a PO Box to send me your Responsive Yo-Yos. They need to be removed from the streets! To be safe send in pristine condition so they can be destroyed in foreign land like…maybe Canada or Kentucky.
With the yo-yos, please include a signed note denouncing responsive play. This will protect you in case of an “Inquisition”. I also live close to Duncan headquarters, if we need to take over the facility.
Probably best to start with sending me the yo-yos. I find Daytrippers (though I never owned one) probably more evil than Imperials so send those first. 
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Golden era? Thanks for making me feel really old. 
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This is a very interesting topic with lots of great perspectives! For me, I think the half step forward to a starter pack or something similar is the way to go. I’ve only been doing this for a little over a year, so my memory of learning how to bind is still fairly fresh.
My first was a V3 with both bearings and axles, and it was really on a different level than what I grew up with (fixed axles). It was fast, spun a long time and honestly, hard coming back to my hand. Being metal, I was also more concerned with hitting things. That made the unresponsive side intimidating to try. I got a few things down responsive, switched to unresponsive and found binding to be tricky, especially to do it well. So I went back with no plan of switching. However, the seed had been planted, and curiosity got the better of me, so I switched back to unresponsive with the intent of learning it no matter how long it took. That was all it took.
That said, my son is who got me interested, and his outlook is different than mine. He can bind and do a couple of things unresponsive, but ultimately finds it very difficult and mostly only picks it up when he wants to connect with me.
So all that to say I think something like the Velocity (where you can change the response on the fly) is probably the best solution to the default offering. I like the idea of kids swapping bearings and axles as it introduces some great concepts, but I’m not sure if that would produce commitment to the hobby. Twisting a knob so they can try something and twisting it back if it produces frustration is a good step forward. I don’t think it’s a generational thing, but a people thing. Success breeds success, and adversity breeds questions.
Again, great topic!
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i think limiting stores to only selling unresponsives is not going to increase interest in the sport or sales in a significant way. i love learning 0a right now, and my duncan orbital gtx isn’t exactly gonna work for that, even if i could find it in a brick and mortar store. I also think 2a is the most fun to watch and i’m not seeing players using unresponsives for that style.
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i do not think unrespnosive should be the style to introduce people to yoyo.
imagine trying to teach a 6 year old who can barely even throw the yoyo how to bind? its challenging to teach people who actually know how to throw a yoyo to bind for their first time. the 6 year old would struggle to even get a throw powerful enough to return to the hand if they even hit a bind, resulting in a manual winding throw after throw. that would be an incredibly frustrating experience for anyone learning to throw, let alone a child who has mostly only known modern digital entertainment.
a buddy of mine in his 30’s had this exact experience going unresponsive too soon and gave up the hobby in favor of kendama lol. i finally convinced him to go back to responsive, and then he finally started making progress and having fun with yoyo.
offerings on brick-and-mortar shelves should be better though. duncan freehand one is a wonderful option, the new SnapBack is amazing. honestly the magicyoyo v3 is a great option for beginners and comes wtih a full size bearing in most packages you can get on the big A.
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It wouldn’t hurt if there was some effort put into not just marketing a new, improved beginner yoyo, but into presenting a beginner-friendly trick ladder as well. After frustration, I’d say the next biggest killer of interest and motivation is the lack of fun things to do with it (i.e., tricks). We need to educate the public as to the variety of tricks they could be doing with this little toy. The toy itself is less of an interest-generator than you think.
I mean, 99% of people who ever try a yoyo have no idea how many tricks they could be doing. Kids do like challenges, and they especially like it when they can get that feeling of “leveling up” in some fun activity. It can turn an intrinsically solitary activity into a group activity as kids race against each other up the ladder.
Furthermore, it’s not enough to have trick ladders listed on various yoyo websites. This information needs to be at the point of sale in brick and mortar stores where the yoyo is sold, and it would greatly benefit, I feel, from having the Duncan name on it to give it that air of being “official”. Once people see all the cool things they can make a yoyo do–where Walk the Dog and Rock the Baby are joined by other, more interesting tricks–there’s a greater chance they’ll spend more time with it and maybe even get their friends to try it.
So while I think the Butterfly XT and the Snapback are ideal candidates to replace the Imperial and Butterfly on store shelves, I think it equally important to have big, colorful posters showing (at least) 10 beginner-friendly tricks that make the yoyo look like an exciting toy.
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My View;
The issue isnt the type of yoyo, its the hype of yoyo.
If we look at the budget options of yoyos available to us, the manufactures have already completed necessary work;
- Design
*Packaging
Look at the SnapBack, YYF Arrow, Duncan Xt, (Fill in the blank).
These are all packaged for Retail. Some even provide the extra bearing to go unresponsive in the package.
So these are availabe… or are they? “Why are they not in Brick and Mortars?”
During the “Big Boom” of the late 90’s Yoyos were Advertised Heavily.
Our consumption of Media has drastically changed in the last 20 years. This has made it difficult or more expensive for Manufaturers to Advertise.
Just look at our sources for us in the “Know”. We know where to look and what to watch for. This is not public knowledge or readily available to the masses.
I guarantee the Manufacturers and us as an established community would love another Boom.
In our current state, we are more Grass Roots/Word of mouth. I dont think this is necessarily a Bad thing. It helps keep personal ownership in our community. It is up to us, we ensure the demise, stagnation or growth of this Life Style/Hobby.
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I suppose I’m not surprised that this topic turned into a LOT of people stating all the reasons why responsive is still the default. At this point, too many for me to even converse with… I’d have to write for hours and hours to properly address all the points made. Perhaps I should have posted on that “unpopular opinions” topic, because this one really brought it home! I’ll quote a few specific things here with some thoughts, while I have time to write.
"As you mention, most of the people who buy yo-yo’s are total beginners (or parents) who happen to see one someplace like Wal-Mart or Target. $4 impulse purchases. There isn’t the pretense of “maybe THIS is something I can spend a lot of time in and invest in personally to become really accomplished at” or even “maybe this is a skill I can develop”, so much as “here’s a cheap plastic toy that maybe I can simultaneously bribe my 9 year-old with AND get him off his iPad for 20 minutes” (just a scenario, but you get the idea).
These buyers still expect that device to be able to return to their hand without any prerequisite technical skill (binding). A yo-yo coming back to your hand is SO inextricably linked to its nature (it’s in that WHAM song, and it’s “yo-yo’s” literal translation) that it’s just an impossibly hard sell to offer a yo-yo which won’t come back to you when you tug it or throw it out. It would require a paradigm shift in the collective understanding of what the toy is of which I don’t believe even Tik-Tok is capable.
I like the energy behind your hot take, but to me it ignores the fact that most yo-yo buyers are not deciding between a beginner/responsive yo-yo and an unresponsive yo-yo… they are deciding between ANY yo-yo and a tin of Aaron’s glow putty, a Pop-It, or a pack of Pokemon cards. Novice players SHOULD have solid options in their first exposure to yo-yo purchases, but it’s not cost effective for stores to stock options which won’t conform to buyers’ expectations of the thing itself, and who will literally think it’s broken."
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed this reply. From Mr. Haponik himself, no less! Honestly though, I’m not expecting whatever Yo-Yo occupies the space of the Duncan Imperial to be anything more than an impulse buy 90% of the time. I just don’t see putting an unresponsive Yo-Yo into that role as such a bad thing anymore. I think having unresponsive Yo-Yos laying around in the bottom of every toy chest, garage sale, car seat, etc. is GOOD thing. Most of them will not take someone into the hobby, but most Yo-Yos don’t anyway.
I’m just trying to shorten the bridge that must be crossed for people to find what makes modern 1A so appealing. Plenty will still fall into the moat, plenty will give it one throw and be done. People think Duncan Imperials are broken, too. I would say you definitely want packaging that pretty thoroughly presents you with how to wind/bind the Yo-Yo though, especially with the inclusion of a QR code to take you to actual video media. The other thing is, the regular responsive Yo-Yo will by no means disappear. Party favor Yo-Yos, dollar store options, gimmicky wooden ones, the light up Darth Vader Yo-Yo in the bargain aisle of your local Target… those guys aren’t going anywhere. You couldn’t get rid of the basic functioning Yo-Yo if you tried, save for destroying the Earth. I saw a display of Yomega Brains and Raiders next to some generic wooden responsive Yo-Yos at a toy shop last week. I’m only talking about replacing a few specific Yo-Yo models here, not magically phasing responsive out of existence.
And regarding your thoughts about Yo-Yos as a simple therapeutic act, I’m totally into that. I’ve been throwing for 14 years, and have repeatedly failed to ever compete, or even make a video to show off in any recent years. I probably should, to give back something to the community, as I am a working cinematographer now, and could make something nice to promote the hobby. But I digress… I would just like to see the popularity of Yo-Yos grow. It’s good for the communities, the manufacturers, the contests… and probably good for all the people who didn’t know how great it is to Yo-Yo. I will be sad to see this hobby continue to fade into obscurity in the digital age, should nothing bring Yo-Yos “back”. So I sometimes I think about what would have to change, perhaps. This idea is maybe one piece of the puzzle, to me.
“The bind return may seem like it’s not a high skill bar, but it is, particularly for kids or people who have never thrown before. My 7 year old hasn’t even mastered the gravity pull yet, and I couldn’t imagine trying to teach him on an unresponsive.” To be honest, I don’t think the most basic bind return is that hard anymore, after personally seeing teens and adults learn it in a day. I understand it may be tricky for a little kid, but so is Yo-Yoing in general. Bind returns are not the biggest difference between being able to Yo-Yo instantly vs spending some time learning. I’ve been surprised when personally teaching a few people on unresponsive first how easy it was, there are upsides to how those Yo-Yos perform that decrease certain beginner difficulties. It’s not purely “more difficult”. I think getting unresponsive out there is worth the downsides.
“The second thing to consider is the Butterfly XT is actually a $5 yo-yo at Target, which is really different than a $10 yo-yo” Honestly if it’s $5, even better. I’m only suggesting selling a plastic Yo-Yo with the shape and gap width of typical an unresponsive throw. If the Butterfly XT can be $5, this concept probably can too… you just change the plastic mold.
“With what kids have these days, I don’t see us ever returning to an Exodus of children wanting to yoyo, outside of what Angel has pulled off in TikTok. And he is pushing unresponsive.” Perhaps not, but to be honest, I think the ideas I’m talking about would be best suited with a bigger marketing plan and a push for another Yo-Yo boom. I think Yo-Yos are way cooler than the general public thinks they are, and that could be more easily known if there wasn’t this barrier of basic tricks and responsive play keeping people from seeing what 1A has become. (It really sounds like I dislike responsive play, but I’m really just talking about what I think will hype up the kids). And what exactly is the alternative here, accept defeat and let the toy keep fading from relevancy? That’s basically what I expect will happen presently.
“Yoyos are not competition for the 24/7 entertainment smartphones and ipads make available.” This is kind of why I’m looking for a way to make Yo-Yos be more prominently known as more than what they are currently thought to be. The basic toy that existed for so long does not easily captivate kids anymore. But the craziness of modern 1A might. Unresponsive tricks have blown up on Tik Tok, rock the baby or walk the dog were never going to do that. It has to mean something.
“i think limiting stores to only selling unresponsives is not going to increase interest in the sport or sales in a significant way.” I suppose I just disagree here. I think if you change every Duncan Imperial people have laying around to an unresponsive Yo-Yo, you have a higher chance of someone picking it up and getting into the current 1A style. Gaining those people is more important for this toy’s success imo than satisfying whoever would be amused at bouncing an Imperial up and down a few times. You’re already asking people to ideally complete a huge skill task by making the common household Yo-Yo a fixed axle toy that requires GREAT skill to rock the baby. A bind return is not a massive price to pay for a long sleeper and Yo-Yo that doesn’t tip over easy.
“a buddy of mine in his 30’s had this exact experience going unresponsive too soon and gave up the hobby in favor of kendama lol. i finally convinced him to go back to responsive, and then he finally started making progress and having fun with yoyo.” This is a good story to hear. I figure unresponsive will put a lot of people off the toy, you always take a loss on some amount of happy customers when you offer one product vs another. I just think it’d still work out for the best in this case. I think a direct replacement to the Duncan Imperial and Butterfly would not be a problem. I think those particular Yo-Yos put more people off of Yo-Yoing than a stable, ball bearing Yo-Yo that needs a bind would. In the controlled environment of a Yo-Yo club or hanging out with a friend, sure, start them on responsive if that works best. But my concern is more getting unresponsive out there on a large scale, to people who have no Yo-Yo friend/teacher guiding a journey, telling them that there is more beyond the Imperial.
“In our current state, we are more Grass Roots/Word of mouth. I dont think this is necessarily a Bad thing. It helps keep personal ownership in our community. It is up to us, we ensure the demise, stagnation or growth of this Life Style/Hobby.” I like your perspective. I think for best results, a lot more things have to happen than just replacing some fixed axle Yo-Yos in general retail. My main concern is finding the most efficient pipeline to get someone from “Doesn’t know about Yo-Yos besides common knowledge” all the way to “Modern unresponsive 1A is really cool”. Marketing, packaging, resources (tutorials & information), community participation/effort, media, and the actual products available all work together on that front. The more streamlined everything is, the better. Right now I see a huge amount of improvement that is possible in every single one of these categories.
One more thing I will say, is that I’ve thought about pretty much all of the things mentioned in this thread. I read every reply, and I wish I could have a longer conversation with all of you. As I’ve said, this sentiment has been stewing in my mind for years, coming off a decade of firmly believing responsive is the way to start (and for some people it always will be the ideal way to start… I’m only really talking about possible benefits of switching out the Duncan Yo-Yos at Walmart, not some universal truth of learning).
Ultimately, this topic isn’t here to enact change, so it hardly matters if anyone agrees with me… but at the very least, I would implore you all to let the idea of “what if the common Duncan/Yomega retail Yo-Yo was unresponsive” float around in your mind for awhile… for years. When you think of the problems this idea presents, don’t stop there, think about how you might solve those problems. Because at the end of the day, it is not a good thing that modern 1A requires the use of a secret, special type of Yo-Yo that NEVER falls in anyone’s lap on its own… they have to explicitly learn about it and explicitly seek it out. I believe that is a MUCH bigger barrier for pulling people in than the bind return will ever be. Thanks for reading and sharing your thoughts, guys.
EDIT: I’ve edited this a handful times to improve how some of the points are stated, sorry about that.
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