I made a trade recently, arranged through Yoyoexpert. We met in person and traded. I have gotten conflicting statements from the traders, jhb, and Yoyoexpert.
No risk >> no feedback is due.
No - in person trades do not warrant feedback, as there is no risk involved in face to face trades. You can see the merchandise up front and the buyer receives his money then and there. Feedback is meant to be so that people can access the risk involved with doing a deal via the mail. You could do 20 face to face trades honorably and still be an online scammer. But then you could do 20 online deals well and screw the next guy too.
Yeah, if you were a buyer, instead of trading though, I’d say “it depends.”
For example, someone who lives local recently PMed me about an item on my wants list. He has something I want. We discussed the condition of it, and worked out the price. We agreed, that because we live in the same state, and we will both be at an upcoming yo-yo event, that I will save on shipping, and he will save time at the post office, so we’ll close the deal in person.
But, after JHB’s response, I can take a loophole, and Paypal this person the day prior to the contest, and incur risk, so that feedback can be issued. In that instance, meeting is only a means of delivery, and risk has been incurred prior to the meet. There can be no backing out. I still take a risk that the other guy won’t show. But, no one will be mailing anything.
I have to be honest though, a lot of people would just issue feedback either way, and never tell anyone how the deal was done. I think that is why feedback never really accurately reflects a person’s reputation on this site. You have to ask questions, and read the comments in the feedback section.
That’s begging the question.
Have to admit, I don’t know where to find the written guidelines addressing this, so everything I say is based on “my interpretation”:
You can establish a reputation in person. In the good old days, that’s how ALL reputations were established. The more positive experiences a person is involved in, the more likely it is that they are trustworthy. It’s uncharacteristic of people to even DO a face-to-face trade if they’re the kind of person intersted in scamming. People who are willing to meet face-to-face are probably the kind of people with nothing to hide.
Someone tends to trade locally, and theoretically gains 20 positive reviews this way. I’m still more likely to trade with this person than the person with 0.
As long as the entire thing started here, I think there’s validity. In theory, the person listed the item here expecting it to be mailed. If they were scamming, they posted pictures that hid damage, and described the throws as “near mint” when they’re actually beaters (or nonexistent). Then someone comes along and says, “hey, I’m in the same city, can we just meet?”… if there was a scam, it’s already online and documented before that conversation even happens. Again, the lister fully expected the buyer to provide shipping details, not request a meeting.
The fact that they showed up, presented the expected yoyos for inspection, and the transaction completed with both parties happy still warrants positive feedback in my opinion.
I think you cleared up his direct question, so no need for my help there. I put in my vote…which was yes. I was in the majority at the time. I was pointing out a scenario where “in person” and “not done through the mail” would qualify for feedback in my opinion. Some reading this might think that deals closed in person or not passed through the mail will not qualify for feedback. I wanted to clear that up for anyone reading.
What answer did he get from Yoyoexpert? Was it a “yes?” Why was there confusion?
I think the lopsided tally of votes for yes, means this needs more attention.
My feeling has been if the “trade” was arranged here and the “trade” being in person is still a “trade”. There is in all actuality far more “risk” meeting someone in person. The feedback is a representation of one self anyway you slice it being digital (physical representative being a postal worker) or in person.
To me in person has no risk whatsoever. What ya gonna do? Grab their yoyo and run off?
The two I traded with and jhb said no, but Yoyoexpert said yes.
Actually, yes plus far worse. There are a TON of instances with Craigslist where people show up for trades and get robbed/assaulted etc. Just because this is a yoyo site doesn’t mean that everyone is honest and upright. Meeting someone you do not personally know always has a danger factor.
My opinion on the matter is if the trade is in person with people that you are friends with/go to meets regularly with/etc then it shouldn’t count. However, if you handle all negotiations online with someone you do not regularly know and THEN meet in person for the trade, then yes, it should count.
I agree with Navy Throw and Total Artist. A trade is a trade. Let the feedback represent the person and not their activity on just one website.
I guess that’s the answer then. He’s the final arbiter of the rules.
No throw related, but there are plenty of people who will try to scam (or rob you or worse, it does happen) when meeting in person. Just as much risk involved, if not more, albeit differently. Plus you have to coordinate a buy/sell/trade before hand, set a time, set a place, set aside the time to go there, get there on time, spend the gas to get there, if youre smart arrange for some one yo accompany you, hope the person shows up on time so you aren’t waiting, hope the person shows up at all, hope the item you’re buying is in the advertised condition/hope the buyer doesn’t back out, etc. Yes there’s a difference between the two risks, but there’s still risk there. And on the flip side, you could do 20 online trades in a community that will notice and track you, and then steal a guys wallet that you’re meeting on Craigslist in between posts. Not arguing rules, just chiming in.
OK, these are valid comments, but I will add that the majority of in person trades I’ve been asked about have been with friends, club members, school mates and even family members. There was recently a case where 5 or 6 guys, all friends, had routinely given each other feedback, some as much as 9 or 10 times for trades they do on an almost weekly basis. There was no risk involved and these guys had huge feedback. Two of them ultimately were involved in trades that went bad.
That said, Andre has said it’s ok, so that’s the answer.
So bottom line, can he leave me feedback and vise versa?
I agree that people are leaving feedback, not for legitimate situations where they cannot back out, or situations arranged on Yoyoexpert, that were listed in someone’s BST. They are seeing something in person, making all the arrangements and negotiations in person, and then trying to get feedback for it. I certainly would not be advocating for that to happen, as in the examples you gave, and I’d have to ask the OP a few questions. What does he mean that the deal was “arranged,” on YoyoExpert? If the item was listed in the BST first, and described or with photos, and contact was made on the site first, and the price set before meeting in person, with arrangements only to meet up for delivery…that is a feedback situation. But, I would not agree that two people who make all arrangements in person, but happen to have a YYE account, should be given feedback. I think you should confirm with Andre what he thinks is the minimum standard for feedback. Not that the OP is wrong, but at this point, anyone saying Andre said anything is hearsay until it is confirmed by you as the moderator. Jhb’ after talking to Andre, perhaps a little write up and post in the rules would clear up any confusion in the future.
But, on another note…folks, review feedback carefully, who gave it, and the comments on the feedback. You know who your trusted members are, and if you see their names on someone’s feedback, weigh those more seriously than names you never heard of. If you see 10 feedback comments from Linkslegionaire that say “great trade” and you see 10 feedback from johndoe, you should be viewing those feedback comments totally different. Just sayin. :-\