Edward Snowden: yes or no?


#1

First time posting in a while, so I’ll h=just get this off the top of my head.

I think he’s a level 9001 hero for revealing some dirty secrets about the the most powerful government on Earth.
I also think he’s a tiny bit of a criminal for exposing some rather fragile intelligence.

What do you guys think?


#2

In before the lock!

Anyway, I haven’t payed too much attention to that whole deal, but the US government is pretty much allowed to do what it wants. I don’t agree with most of it, but that’s life.

By the way, everyone should go look up “Lie Witness News: Justin Bieber Concert”. In a lot of ways, the fan girls are really similar to super-de-duper gung-ho patriots.

As one final note to everyone, keep it civil. No flame wars (I feel like a kindergarten teacher LOL).


#3

I’m erasing my post. I don’t want to be jumped on, but I see where both sides (The crowd saying he is a hero, and the crowd saying he is a villain) are coming from. Please, let’s try to have an educated discussion, rather than a flame war.


#4

All governments participate in this sort of thing. If you believe otherwise you’re terribly naive.


#5

Yes, but those governments are often totalitarian or have admitted themselves to domestic spying. The Feds were going to try and keep spying a secret for as long as possible, which is incredibly dishonest and a huge invasion on privacy, which is what the US was supposed to pride themselves in.


#6

Dreamer.


#7

He should be put up against a wall and shot as a traitor.


#8

Snowden is a traitor.

While some of the issues raised may deserve discussion, removing sensitive US government documents and passing them to foreign security organizations is clearly illegal and traitorous. Regardless of what those documents contained; real, meaningful discussion of the intelligence gathering and its extent does not require passing sensitive US intelligence information to other countries.

What possible defense can he have?


(Jei Cheetah) #9

He’s a hero, and my inspiration.

Haru


#10

I’m erasing my post. I don’t want to be jumped on, but I see where both sides (The crowd saying he is a hero, and the crowd saying he is a villain) are coming from. Please, let’s try to have an educated discussion, rather than a flame war.


#11

Based on several of the responses in this thread, I am very scared for the future of our country and our children. Intelligent thought is necessary to examine events like these. If you aren’t capable of it, educate yourself and come back when you’re able to participate.


#12

Proclaiming that you are “scared for the future of our country and our children”; is simple to do; Perhaps a little clarity would help us understand your fears or special insights. Otherwise, your statement is relatively meaningless. Maybe you could bless us with a bit of that intelligent thought and reason that you see so little of in others?


#13

My point: viewing this man as a hero is wrong. Committing treason is not heroic, no matter how much the results mean to the public. Frankly, none of us understand a shred of PRISM and, unless one among us has a law degree and intimate knowledge of information-gathering legalities, we shouldn’t be taking the stance that many of us seem to be taking.

People are amazingly easy to influence. We all know that, at least. What we tend to forget is that the vernacular usage of “people” includes each and every one of us. Whether it be blind idolization or baseless fear, we’re always being pushed one way or another.

What scares me is the lack of effort the “pusher” needs to put in.


#14

Now your position is clear. Thanks.

I think that most adults can agree that the methods Mr. Snowden used were illegal.

This does not, however, diminish the serious nature of the activities he has exposed. While none of the information coming forth is new, it has focused the discussion on the growing scale of these activities. While “Meta-data” is relatively harmless from a privacy standpoint, the sheer size of the gathered intelligence does pose some risks that seemingly harmless information can morph into something that was not intended. Just as the pendulum of justice swings too far; so can the intelligence gathering swing too far and create a Big Brother that no one saw coming.

That is a discussion that we need to have. Where are the limits? Who decides when those limits are reached? History has shown time and again that allowing the law-enforcement to define these limits generally takes us beyond what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights intended.


(M.DeV1) #15

Ignorance is bliss.


#16

Smedley D. Butler, one of the highest ranking and most decorated military officers ever, told everyone the truth back in 1935.

Here’s someone reading Smedley’s speech on youtube.

Part of his speech/book.
“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”


(Q) #17

Hardly. Do you really believe that democratic nations respect the people’s privacy as much as they say they do? None of this should come as any surprise, as it was talked about during the passing of the Patriot Act, except back then, it was people begging to hand over their privacy in order to keep the entire nation safe. Personally, I don’t think anybody should have any privacy if it keeps someone somewhere from killing somebody else. I know I’d be willing to have the government see what kind of porn I was into if it meant I could rest easy knowing that internal infrastructure was safe.

Honestly, anybody who thinks that privacy is a right is sorely mistaken.


#18

I think many are painting too broad a stroke when putting the NSA in the same bag as the services of other more repressive countries.

I will preface my comments here by saying that I have worked on some aspects of the broad intelligence-gathering programs that are being questioned. Specifically, I helped to write some of the software tools being used by people like Mr. Snowden to mine and interpret this vast quantity of gathered data.

I can assure everyone that the strongest line of defense, when it comes to privacy and individual rights, are those Americans that are creating and fine-tuning those very systems. Each person and organization is deeply aware of the implications of their work and the potential for abuse. It is those individuals that provide the greatest barrier to abuse because they ARE Americans; and care deeply about our rights.

That check and balance is simply not present in totalitarian countries. The actions of Mr. Snowden are a response to that check and balance. In China, he never would have made it out of the country.

Do I have a problem with the questions being asked? Heck no! I asked many of these same questions myself. Since most of the facts in this case are not new in the media; it goes to show that many of people working on these programs have spoken publicly about aspects that disturb. Such discussion simply does not occur in China. It has occurred here and continues. That is a good thing.

One discussion I think needs to be had is the recent recusal of the Courts in deciding the fate of Guantanamo detainees. Just as with NSA programs, the jurisdiction is not as clear legally as Americans might think.

Who commands the NSA? Who controls the budget of the NSA, NRA, *** ? Does the Justice Branch have authority to regulate those activities? What rights of foreign nationals are Americans required to respect? These are questions that a modern, evolved society should be having. Not worrying that the government knows you called Aunt Bertha last week at 8:52pm and that the call lasted 13minutes.


#19

I have no idea what we are talking about but I am gonna say he is good because he has a pretty cool name and stuffs.


#20

Best post ever.