Chem Trails - from WAYT2025

[hooty7734 (Hooty Burd)]

Anyone interested more in the conversation from What are you throwing 2025?

Please discuss here instead of continuing the conversation there.

The Science of Contrails

Click the link above to read more and see images of all contrails.

Here’s a quick video explanation.

Crash Course: How Contrails Form

Here’s more documentation in the form of a peer reviewed scientific article Formation, properties and climatic effects of contrails.

Article by NASA On the trail of contrails

A laboratory study of contrails

There’s even briefings on contrails and their effect on climate change.

Also a related long format video.

Aircraft contrail climate effects and mitigation | Energy Futures Lab webinar

[Sven (really Sven (he/him))]

I’ve read the comments in WAYT25. I see that @yoyodoc does not belive in chemtrails are true or a true conspiracy. Right @yoyodoc?

The one thing that stuck with me:

@yoyodoc

Out here… That’s just what most people call them.

That’s concerning to me.
If people start to use a term in an unpricise, but adjacent manor, based on their misunderatnding of reality, it becomes a clutural slope or gateway to actual harmful stances or policies.

That’s evident, when people use the therm “woke”, when they actually want to express, that they don’t like queer people. Woke and queer are not the same (If you want to know, I tell you. Ask.).
And this led politicians in the USA, but also in Germany to use “Woke”, or “War on woke”, as a way to condem anybody in the opposition. Just like they used the name ANTIFA as an umbrellaterm to condem any protest they don’t like.

And in the end, through such games, real people get hurt. Kids not allowed to play in sports teams. Adults attacked in public spaces. Horrible.

@yoyodoc

So you can say without reservation hesitation or consultation that I’ve seen a whole lot of damn planes flying over that freeway on the way to LAX.

@yoyodoc

I would suggest I find it quite interesting and somewhat comical that as expensive, as it is to fly planes around, that what I see on the way to work in the way of whatever the trails are …They’re not even parallel.

@yoyodoc

I personally don’t know what is in all the discharge that comes out of those planes?

Seeing vaportrails in the sky is an observation. Planes being expensive to run is a thing. Bringing planes being expensive and vaportrails looking weird together, is conjection. It reads like, you @yoyodoc want to suggest something is not logical. But as you stated, you don’t now. I don’t know either. Which is perfectly fine.

Humans always observed reality as they saw it and misunderstood it.
That’s why eye witnesses are untrustworthy and observations need to be corroborated.

It’s valid to belive your friend, if he tells you, that he has a new puppy. It’s not valid to belive in aliens just because some pilots say so. It’s about degrees of burden to proof.

But I will never say that Doc @yoyodoc intended any malice. We all are subect to influences outside our control. Like your neighbours saying “Chemtrails” to vaportrails so many times, that it becomes normal.

[yoyodoc]

@Sven

I’ve read the comments in WAYT25. I see that @yoyodoc does not belive in chemtrails are true or a true conspiracy. Right @yoyodoc?

That is correct. It would be incredibly assumptive to suggest that I know exactly what I’m looking at without having any chemical composition, type evidence to support drawing a conclusion.

I’m not a betting man. I don’t go to the horse races. I don’t bet on football games. I don’t go to Las Vegas. I don’t play cards for money. I don’t even play the lottery.

But even if I had $10 million stacked on a table in front of me, I wouldn’t bet 100 bucks on what I see in the sky is anything more than I can prove. Which I can’t.

Now, if the same planes that emit whatever they’re emitting decided to make a cropdusting run over the top of my neighborhood and one of my neighbor said oh don’t worry it’s just one of those planes let out condensation. And if the stuff landed on us and turned out to kill everybody in the neighborhood, but me, then even without a chemical analysis I would at least be able to say that’s just not condensation is it.

But as I said, in my previous oratory, since they switch my job site to downtown Los Angeles and I actually live about a mile from the beach. I drive out to Harbor Freeway five days a week to downtown Los Angeles, for the last 32 years. And I see a bunch of planes flying at all different angles coming from all different directions, leaving streaks across the sky. It just strikes my curiosity that they don’t have anything else better to do. I have noticed that I’ve never seen a plane flying over the freeway, westbound to land at LAX emitting anything white or otherwise. But then again the commercial chats that I see are flying at a much lower altitude than the planes that I see emitting the white discharge.

As a general rule, I am one of the last people that will buy into any type of conspiracy theory. I just don’t play that game. As I told you guys over and over… Over the years that you either part of the problem or part of the solution.

If there’s something in your neck of the woods that you can actively participate in that you have an awareness about in are willing to be part of the solution. I’m a joiner.

But all the people that have a Predisposition to just basically say the sky is falling and we’re all going straight to hell unless we gang up on something… I don’t buy into any of that.

It’s easy for any of us to say oh well we know what that white stuff is coming out of those planes. And we know what that white stuff isn’t coming out of those planes. And anybody that disagrees with us, Is full of beans because we know what that white stuff is being emitted by all those planes.

But you don’t know what that white stuff is. You optimistically suggest that it’s harmless and easy to explain. And on the other side of the number line, there are people that say it’s not harmless and that’s easy to explain.

But here’s my Actual stance on what the white trails in the sky ‘are’, If you don’t have enough information and chemical analysis evidence to present in Court, You got nothing.

Case closed.

[Sven (really Sven (he/him))]

@yoyodoc

Now, if the same planes that emit whatever they’re emitting decided to make a cropdusting run over the top of my neighborhood and one of my neighbor said oh don’t worry it’s just one of those planes let out condensation. And if the stuff landed on us and turned out to kill everybody in the neighborhood, but me, then even without a chemical analysis I would at least be able to say that’s just not condensation is it.

Can you see, that a statement like this leaves the door oppen to the possibility of a chemtrail conspiracy?

@yoyodoc

But you don’t know what that white stuff is. You optimistically suggest that it’s harmless and easy to explain. And on the other side of the number line, there are people that say it’s not harmless and that’s easy to explain.

The problem here is that on the one side, the “vaportrail” side, you have actual authority, like scientists and researchers and on the other side, the “chemtrail” side, you have uninformed and ignorant layman/-women/-people. So you may have an equal amount of voices and equal sizes of groups, but the quality of those groups are not the same and their message is not equally as trustworthy.

Someone saying something, is neither fact, nor true, unless it is followed by actual evidence.

Doc @yoyodoc , you are awesome and I like you a lot. That photo of you and that sweet harley, long fender chopper is one of the coolest pictures I have ever seen. You are clearly a man, who knows his stuff. A master of your field. A legend, probably not only in this forum.

So why do you even entertain such clear nonsense, like that chemtrail stuff. That’s what’s baffeling me right now.

[yoyodoc]

@Sven

So why do you even entertain clear nonsense, like that chemtrail stuff. That’s what’s baffeling me right now.

I profess to believe that most anything is possible. I have never ever told anyone I could prove everything or anything for that matter with a high degree of probability.

I see things that strike my curiosity. The lesser my ability to draw any conclusions simply based on a lack A factual evidence, increases my degree of curiosity?

In the post, you just responded to I very clearly tried to explain that I am not a conspiracy theory kind of person. I feel it would be quite redundant to go back to my last response above yours and start picking out statements I made for validation.

I’m not attempting to deliberately or even accidentally entertain Something or anything that may be considered clear nonsense.

Because if there’s not enough evidence to support or derail the subject at hand, then it is neither nonsense or irrefutably true.

Like I said before… If the evidence won’t hold up in court, you got nothing.

As I had previously mentioned to Isaac when he had commented on that long winded Explanation of mine being about chemtrails. My response was in all that text. I don’t remember even saying the word chemtrail? It was just arbitrarily assumed that that’s what I meant without actually saying it… That’s what I meant. And you know what they say about assumption.

No further comment.

PS… By the way, thanks for liking that old Harley picture. That image was taken in 1974.
Over 50 years ago. And… I still mess with Harley’s, lol

[Sven (really Sven (he/him))]

Okay. Thank you for your response.

Edit: I can see that I made the mistake of assuming you suggested some credibility to chemtrails. To me your responses/statements read as such, in context. I am sorry for that misunderstanding.

[hooty7734 (Hooty Burd)]

@yoyodoc

But here’s my Actual stance on what the white trails in the sky ‘are’, If you don’t have enough information and chemical analysis evidence to present in Court, You got nothing.

@yoyodoc

I’m not attempting to deliberately or even accidentally entertain Something or anything that may be considered clear nonsense.

Because if there’s not enough evidence to support or derail the subject at hand, then it is neither nonsense or irrefutably true.

Like I said before… If the evidence won’t hold up in court, you got nothing.

That’s wild, there’s science that proves what they are and it holds up in the scientific community. Still sounds like you are walking around the truth in favor of chem trails.

Do I need to provide more documentation for you to read? Will do, check the original post at the top for more documentation. @yoyodoc

Feel free to respond with any peer reviewed scientific articles suggesting the flip side of the argument at hand.

[megachicken289 (Frank)]

Perf (Separated thread)

[jhb8426 (Resident Curmudgeon)]

Here’s a couple of good examples of aerodynamic contrails formed in the wing shock of a fighter jet:

Here’s a couple of classic exhaust contrails:

Both of these show the exhaust contrail distinctly coming from each engine, then being mixed by the wing vortices. When the aircraft is trimmed in a symmetric condition the vortices will be symmetric. In a couple of the images that follow you can see a difference in the vortices indicating that the aircraft trim is not symmetric.

Under the right conditions The vortices will start to form rings and loops. The contrail shows this very well:

At a cerain point the vortices become unstable and break into separate loops:

Here is an example of non-symmetric trim:

Here’s a nice video and explanation of the vortex formation:

Crow Instability

[megachicken289 (Frank)]

/thread

[Kalic00 (Erik)]

Those non-symmetric patterns look really cool! Thanks for sharing!

do they assist in the dispersal of different chemicals? (Poking fun at chemtrails conspiracy in general, not anyone here)

[jhb8426 (Resident Curmudgeon)]

No, but they do disperse the ice crystals…

(I did some work in this area in another place and time…)

[Slestak75 (Steve)]

These are some great pictures. Thanks.