Great post!
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I also feel like the defining line of competition yoyos is a fluid thing. Right now horizontal is the popular trend therefor you will see designs that lend well to horizontal play become the more “competetion” style throws. Say gyro flops become the next hot thing, to be fair I know this isnt going to be the case, you will see a big shift in what is designated a competition throw.
The beauty of where the yoyo industry is today is that even 20 dollar plastics can pump out more than what the average player can throw at them. The baseline performance level today is so much higher than that of times past, so in the right hands nearly anything can become a throw worthy of competition.
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Ok. Here’s the deal (to my knowledge).
If you want to be successful in competition, you’re going to have to have a large variety of tricks. Speed, tech, slack, horizontal, around the body hops, etc.
This is not only because it is hard to have enough unique elements to score high in technical execution without many types of tricks, but also because a decent portion of the scoring looks at the variety of tricks you present.
SO, yoyos designed for competition need to be able to handle pretty much any kind of trick. This means they need a powerful spin. It also means they need low walls, to prevent string contact on the walls both vertically, and for horizontal yoyoing. They need to have a wide catch zone for hop tricks.
You can see how this is starting to sound like the typical competition yoyo shape.
Some organic yoyos might be powerful, they might be good a tech, but they’re pretty much going to be universally worse for horizontal, speed, and difficult hop combos. So they are good at some things, not others.
A (well executed) competition shape should be good for everything. Period.
The video you showed has no horizontal. It has no railing combos. That routine (while an incredible display of skill) would not place well in competition.
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Am I correct in believing that even though Gentry Stein won 2015 Nats with an organic plastic yoyo (the Replay Pro), he did not try to compete in World’s with it. He went back to his Shutter, didn’t he?
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A side note:
I have seen users here cite examples of people who have done well in competitions with yoyos that are not a typical competition shape. Yes this is possible. But it means that the yoyoer has to do extra work/practice, and have extra skill.
Yes, I know that Jensen Kimmit has done horizontal on a Canvas. That does not mean that he wouldn’t be able to do that combo more easily (or a longer horizontal combo) on a Draupnir.
Also, with the skill level for competition being so high these days, competitive speed and horizontal combos are really pushing the boundries of what it is possible to do at all with a yoyo. The more extreme horizontal combos (which are pretty much standard these days at contests) would be all but impossible on an organic yoyo.
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I both agree and disagree with this. While the competition scene definitely has popular elements that come and go, at the end of the day, it is going to be about the highest skilled yoyoers trying to score as highly as possible in a given time.
The reason that horizontal is popular is because it scores very well. Elements performed horizontally are harder, and therefore will aid in the difficulty category in the scoring.
Things like horizontal and railing combos are going to be around for the foreseeable future, not because they’re “the hot thing on the scene” but because they score REALLY well.
Until the rules change (which I have not heard anything about happening any time soon) these things will be around.
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Yes. This is correct. He only used Replay for Nats. Worlds he used Shutter.
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I can accept that extension and clarification on my opinion lol. Well said
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Now this is the perfect opportunity for me to talk about 3D tricks! 3D tricks are tricks where the yoyo is moving outside of its plane. Here is an example (it’s at 44s)
These tricks quickly diminish your spintime and will destroy any organic yoyo
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Thanks! But yeah, you’re totally right, there are a lot of those “meta” elements that people just love, and then ditch after a couple years.
Like those infernal hooks that everyone and their dog did for a few years haha
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I think comp yoyoing needs a different judging system.
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I 100% agree. I know a lot of people were disappointed with Gentry’s routine at the last contest.
It’s the system’s fault, not the player’s.
I’d love to see more of an emphasis on musicality, stage presence, and overall performance quality.
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Going back to what I said about judging system…Imo this should place very well in comp…Its art. Not everyone wants to see speed, horizontal combos.
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Sameeeeeeee. Sometimes I see an amazing performance and I’m like how did this not win???
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I agree.
Especially because those tricks he’s doing are very difficult often. And quite original.
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That performance is so beautiful. Watched it so many times. I really enjoy when you can see all of the tricks
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That’s the point of the two videos. Charles’ freestyle is beautifully crafted and executed and no one cares. Sunshine Jimmy goes up there and does a bunch of horizontal, body tricks, eli hops, etc and everyone loses their minds.
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Judging will always be controversial because it is subjective, not just during a performance, but also during the process that decides what scores points. Hajime Miura gave a 4A performance at the 2019 Worlds that blew everybody’s minds, but because it wasn’t optimized for scoring points according to the current system, it placed 7th.
This is not meant to be a referendum on the scoring system, but merely pointing out that every form of competition has to have some agreed-upon metric for determining a winner, and given the yoyo contest scoring metrics of the last several years, it shouldn’t be at all surprising that rim-weighted, V-shaped yoyos under 66m have become the competition standard (for 1A anyway).
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I would like to point that what Hajime did on wyyc2019 was point up a flaw that the IYYF has been ignoring for too long in 4A, which is the nature of soloham tricks in competitive 4A. Such phenomenon is not allowed in other divisions, but when soloham appeared in 4A, no one said anything about it and it became a problematic trend (4A freestyle + short soloham part at the end).
Basically IYYF needs to either ban soloham, create a separate division, or create a concrete subset of rules for it.
This was a tangent really. Everyone says the comp scene needs “better judging”. I’d like to trust that the pros at IYYF know what they are doing for the most part (the system might be flawed, but its waaaay way far from being bad), and for people to realize that comp yoyo is not the end all be all of yoyoing.
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Thank you for posting that. I’d never seen it. (and thanks for explaining their point in your later post, I actually just watched the whole thing laughing at the concept without realizing there was a point). Those guys look like they are having fun at all this stuff.
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