YYF as well as Jason Wong have smashed all the preconceived notions that 7075 can’t be anodized like 6061.
I love my Sleipnir and all, but it is not even my fastest or most stable yoyo. Speed is not determined by the yoyo so much as the player and how they practice. Sure the tool can effect the speed to a small degree, but YoYoGeezer makes it sound like its all yoyo. The Boss (6061) is much quicker than the Sleipnir (7075). My Chief (6061) is also quicker than my Sleipnir. Don’t get me wrong, my Sleipnir is one of my favorite yoyos, but I can yoyo faster and with more stability and longer spin times with my Avalanche (6061) than I can with my Sleipnir (7075) even though the Sleipnir has more rim-weight and less center-weight.
I do love 7075 aluminum yoyos. I wish all my yoyos were made out of it due to the added durability, appearance, and sonic qualities. 7075 is not however magic nor does it make a yoyo automatically more stable or faster.
Sorry but you are seriously making a mistake thinking that the alloy itself has anything to do with the performance of the yo-yo. You could achieve the same thing in 6061 if the designer and machinist properly distribute the weight.
One Drop has just released the GZR version of the CODE2, a 7075 version. There are no changes to the design at all, they literally loaded up the same program and threw in 7075 instead of 6061. Would you like to know what the difference is in play… honestly it isn’t much. The GZR spins a little more and hits harder on the string, huge surprise considering it is 2.5 grams heavier with the exact same weight distribution. Those that like a heavy yo-yo will like the GZR, those that want lighter will want the regular… very similar I bet to what YYF was trying to do when offering the Supernova and the SN Lite.
Geezer, I have a sneaky feeling you would love a YYR that was made with 6061. Why? because you really like how they distribute the weight.
your point that I would probably like the Positron in 6061 is an interesting one. It is the reason that I bought a GZR Code2.
I do not think that the Code2 design - like the SuperNova - will illustrate the benefits of 70705 like the Turning Point Positron does. My take on it is that it will probably just be a heavier Code2. But that will be information also. Clearly, what I have been talking about is the combination of weight distribution and the alloys used.
I must point out, however, that your logic is flawed.If your contention is that:
a. the alloy used is immaterial to yoyo performance.
b. If I like the Positron in 7075
c. I would like the Positron in 6061
That means:
a. The code2 alloy is immaterial
b. If like the Code2 in 6061
c. I will like the Code2 in 7075
If I do not like the GZR Code2 - does that mean that the Code2’s design is flawed?
Actually, he did not say the positron. He said “A YYR”. He was saying that if YYR designed a yoyo for 6061 that you would probably like it just as much as a 7075 YYR. Realistically, the differences between the alloys (Strength-weight wise) is that 7075 weighs more and is stronger. Not that it really makes a difference, cause you can achieve just as much rim weight in 6061.
That is exactly how the GZR plays, like a 2.5 gram heavier CODE2.
As for the alloy being immaterial, my logic is quite sound. It isn’t the alloy that you like about the Poitron, YYR, or any other Asian yoyo. You like the math behind the yoyo. You have said as much. The ratios would be the same if the Positron is 6061 or 7075 so they would play similar, just like my GZR and my CODE2.
Now as to your design is flawed comment, are you serious. Everyone who has been in this hobby for more than two minutes knows that the feel of a yoyo is subjective. Unless a yoyo vibes like an off balance washer or pulses like a heart the design is not flawed, it just does not fit you preferred play style.
I meant it was flawed to illustrate that the design clearly encompasses both the material and the design.
It is interesting to note that 7075 yoyos seem to favor very heavyily weighted rims and a cylindrical core (Turning Point, YYR, YYjoker, YYMonster) vs. the 6061 (CLYW, OD, YYF…) that seem to favor a more widely distributed weight pattern.
I would generally agree with your observations about the GZR edition. It does, however, have some things to recommend it. The spin-time is phenomenal and the stabiltiy is up there with the Avalanche. It is not as fast or maneuverable as the similarly weighted Positron. It would be interesting to see the Code2 re-worked a bit for 7075. I would make the walls thinner, the inner-cup deeper with thicker inner-walls and push the weight out to the rims. Call it the Nautilus 7075.
It would be really intersting to see get my hands on a YYR Positron done in 6061. The contrast would be informative. I guess I should have bought that Arctic Circle Prototype. It looked alot like a Sleipnir.
Yeah. I guess I am saying that I hope that OD makes a 7075 targeted throw that uses the design elements found on many other 7075 throws - notably from JP.
After all this “discussion” it has become obvious to me that what I am liking is the combination of design and materials.
Perhaps it is just me, but the two alloys seem to have spawned two different design paths. I am trying not to over-generalize, but there does seem to be a trend. The 6061 throws seem to favor a wide-distribution of weight accross the whole of the yoyo. By this I mean the multi-flanged inner-lips of most 6061 throws - the nmost obvious example is the Chief.
The 7075 throws (NOT the Supernova or the GZR - think: Positron, Sleipnir, Leviathan…) seem to favor a hefty rim-weight with a a central inner cylinder rather than bowl-shape that most 6061 throws favor. This is the combination of factors that I think, I have been talking about - but not properly identifying.
These questions then come to mind:
Why are yoyos designed in JP so uniform in their basic shape?
Does this basic shape have something to do with the properties 7075?
If not; then why is this shape not found on 6061 yoyos?
Would a 6061 Positron be as beast as it is in 7075?
The last one is the most intriguing. If a 6061 Positron is a fabulous yoyo - like it is in 7075 - then MAJOR questions need to be asked at the North American yoyo design houses. I mean, if the Positron/Sleipnir/DoubleJoker/Quickmate design is as good in 6061 as it is in 7075 - what the hell are you guys doing at OneDrop? YYF? ? CYYC? CLYW?.. Get off the couch and try designing something like that.
Such a yoyo would, at least add something to the product line that is currently missing. It would also provide us North American consumers with options for yoyos with that design that might not cost $200 - Oh! wait; that is why I posted this question on the OTHER forum in the first place!
You hit the nail right on the head… they are “basic” shapes. Take the YYR line or even Ben’s MVP. There is not much there in the way of cutting, it is all pretty basic: straight lines, very few if any curves, no IGR… basic. That is not to say that the designs are not functional, just that there is nothing to it from a machining standpoint. In my opinion you aren’t seeing a lack of that particular shape in 6061, you are seeing an unwillingness to experiment in the 7075 market. If I had to guess, the reason for it is a combination of higher cost of materials and hardness of the alloy being harsher on the cutting materials.
I disagree and can say the opposite. If a 6061 positron played identical to a 7075 positron what would be the point of the upgrade? a faster rotation time and slightly more toughness. Assuming the jump in price would be about the same as a supernovas and code 2 let’s pretend it’s about 30 bucks. If that was all I was getting out of it, other then the ability to go, “HEY! look at my high class aluminum” I don’t think it’d be worth it and I can ask what they’re doing on their couch waxing me thirty hypothetical dollars just so my yoyo takes less damage per attack.
some may go for it, I wouldn’t.
also the same reason I refuse to pay over 120 for a single throw. not enough benefit (in my eyes) to explain the increase in price
There is one scenario where swapping 6061 to 7075 would be e benefit. Say you really like the play of a yo-yo but you wish it were a couple grams heavier, then switching to 7075 is a plus. The problem is that the switch, as djbcide points out, will usually result in a higher price tag so you have to decide if an extra couple grams is worth a $30 to $40 markup.
saintrobyn, you have a normal code2 and a gzr right?
I’m interested in how a the gzr plays vs a normal code 2 with side effects that are 2.5 grams heavier then the ones on the gzr, for instance:
a gzr with aluminum Lego (2.7g)
and a normal with brass ultralights (5.2g)
I realize that the weight distribution would be different since the extra 2.5g on the gzr would be evenly placed and not in one chunk in the center, but that’s exactly why I’m interested in the difference of play going on there.
or if anybody out there could do it that’d be a cool experiment for the community
If the new Supernovas are being made from 6061 instead of 7075 wouldn’t that make them Supernova Lights? I though the only difference between the two was the type of material used. I was also under the impression that the Supernova Light was discontinued. Maybe they changed the weight distribution?
We seem to keep coming back to your disdain for the Japanese yoyos. Why this is, I can not fathom, but you consistently want to paint any yoyo’s from Japan as poorly designed, poorly made and poorly supported. Ok, we get it. You do not like them.
But coming up with statements like this is just silly.
Yeah right. Got it… The Japanes can’t machine an alloy they created, and their designs all converge because they are lazy and do not bother to experiment. Seems to fit the cultural stereotype for me.
I have no major disdain for any of the Japanese yo-yos. What I said was based on the play time I have had with YYR and design of the yo-yo itself. Show me the major steps on a YYR, the drastic cuts, the IGRs, the comfortable edges to reduce the impact in the palm. Here is a reference photo for you:
There are none. It is an angle in the catch zone away from being a straight V-Shape with no IGR. Geezer, I have reviewed and played enough yo-yos to know what is easier and harder to machine. I am not taking away from the science behind their design, YYR knows how to shift weight around but that does not make it a tricky design to manufacture. Have you ever wondered why most “budget” yo-yos don’t have an IGR… it is because it costs extra money due to the extra machine time.
The only one painting in a negative light is you Geezer. You can’t see the reality set in front of your face so obviously everyone else is out to get your brand of choice. I will say this once politely, please do not try and paint me as anti-any culture, which you have done in your previous posts. It makes you look like a fool who is too blinded by fanboyism to see a differing opinion. For the record, I do like the YYR design, I just do not feel as if they are worth the high price of admission. I have also had first hand experience with a YYR that ended up galling in the bearing seat due to extremely tight posts. TEll me, where is the hatred in my saying these things, or my opinions on the ease of manufacture of these current designs.
