I got a t5, it was too good to pass up at 13 bucks at my door. Its amazing for that price. The bearing is great, at least for the short time I have owned it.
I really am looking forward to having a n12, it looks like a winner.
I cannot afford most of these yoyos you guys have, If I could I would…
Geezer, you’re going to have to dumb that down a bit. There are probably two people here who understood all of that.
If the Chinese state is funding these money losing ventures, who is funding the Chinese state?
What part of their activities are immoral or unscrupulous?
What prevents U.S. companies from adopting a similar structure? Would there be a benefit?
Can you provide numbers and examples with cited sources? Recommended reading, maybe?
I have seen, with my own eyes, evidence of YYF having a working relationship with both Aoda and Auldey. I have tried and own some Chinese yoyos that are as well made and original in design as any American yoyos I own.
I’m not doing much of a job of making my point. Here it is as simple as I can put it: Where is the proof? If you would accuse a man of a crime, hyperbole and conjecture are not enough to convict him in a fair court. You must have proof. I would love to see the negative accusations towards the Chinese companies proven if only to put this argument to rest.
(For the record, there are only a few Chinese yoyos that appeal to me. I’m mostly a YYJ fan. Thanks again for the deal on the Xcon Pros, Geezer 
Really fantastic yoyos.)
Weight (g) 65.0
Diameter (mm) 57.00
Width (mm) 43.00
Weight (g) 67.4
Diameter (mm) 54.5
Width (mm) 39.5
This is not a Copy.
Not aligned perfectly vertically, but you get the idea.
Pink = T5
Purple = Sleipnir
C3 have more yoyo based staff, I guess that’s how to describe it, after checking out each website you can definitely see a difference in just site quality alone, that’s where the price goes up.
The 3 main guys at c3 are very well known around asia, with a ‘very well paid’ skill set (ie Video producer, web dev etc). From what I can find about C3 is that they, like most smaller companies, hire other machining companies to do the work (One Drop’s machines are used by quite a few companies), this ups the manufacturing cost compared to MYY.
Over in MYY’s corner they have 20staff and 5 tech engineers quoted from magicyoyo.cn.
Another factor in MYY’s favor is that they own their own lathes and lots of them “We have 9 CNC lathe,3 sets of large, 2 sets of steel processing machine,laser machine” Quoted from myy site. Because of this they actually hire out there lathes for OED/OEM work which undoubtedly makes a bit of revenue, along side MYY the company also owns a couple other name brand toys (can be found from the magicyoyo.cn), that is why they can offer such low prices. Instead of sending it back and forth between machiners and laser’ers they just take the design downstairs and boom finished.
Here is the Magicyoyo.cn FAQ for anyone wanting to read it, it should answer most if not all question about how this company can keep prices so low but quality fairly high.
Wow thank you! That’s quite insightful! I should have looked myself, but now I’m interested.
I really appreciate you digging that up. I would love to see pictures of their factory. A real yoyo factory.
Check out the behind the scenes One Drop videos They showed off a in a couple of videos late last year which showed basically the ins and outs of what happens in a yoyo makers shed.
One of reason why Magic yo-yo is so cheap(under 10$) is that they use lower quality aluminium. That is reason, why newest N12 is only one which has 6061 written specifications and why they mention it in all PR stuff. Another is that they make really tons of them.
Even in China is Magic yo-yo considered low-end, they have their own higher-end brands like Top-yo, Empire, God-Tricks, Yoyofficer,…
I have nothing against Magic yo-yo, lower quality, but also really cheap, but I hate their distributor in Czech and Slovak Republic. They sell basic models for prices over 30$, sell them through small kid shops that has no idea how modern yo-yo looks like and recommend them to small kids as their first yo-yo, when they should get something like butterfly XT instead.
Yoyogeezer: Is it really so bad with importing yo-yos to china? I checked some chinese shops, for example YYR for 210$, YYF also reasonable prices. On videos from contest I always see t-shirts of Yoyorecreation, Something, C3(not really outside of china, but close).
No one “funds” a state. Each state, or treasury creates money in accordance with the demand for capital and credit. The United States creates money through multiple mechanisms that result in the supply of money to fund economic activities. If they create too much - inflation will occur. This is because foreign investors recognize that the increased amount of money supplying the same output must mean that the currency unit is devalued.
Because the Chinese economy is a command economy they can “fund” whatever they wish to fund. Because the Chinese Yuan is not traded internationally, China is mostly immune to externally created inflation; or the devaluation of their currency due to value fluctuation.
The price that is paid is that to continue this cycle - China must remove the excess foreign capital that accumulates in the economy due to international trade (the $ they get for their McDonalds Kids meal toys…). If this capital was retained in a Communist, command-economy, the result would be that individual members of Chinese society would get rich. This would inevitably create social strife within a Communist country. To avoid this strife, the Chines regularly use the foreign capital ($) that they get trading with the US. to buy US. Bonds on the open market. This removes the inflationary foreign capital from their markets while also funding a long-term social benefits program for a Chinese society that has no social safety nets at all.
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In China, this is how business is done. It is also why the economies of SE Asia have been devoid of innovation and creativity. If you allow those with an unfair advantage to prey on those without advantage; individuals will simply give-up trying to innovate or create since it will inevitably be stolen by someone who already owns the facilities to make the newly designed item. This Gengis Khan mentality will forever make you a follower not a leader or innovator. Only when innovators are rewarded, will you get innovation. It is human nature.
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US. Law prevents those with structural advantages from preying on those with less resources (called: even playing field). That is why we have patent laws and laws preventing foreign companies from taking advantage of our open markets. The benefit is that creators and innovators are rewarded in our economy. This sets an example to other would-be innovators and encourages them to take risk and innovate for the benefit of all.
What would have happened if IBM had been allowed to steal the original ideas of Steve Jobs and early Apple Computer? IBM would have crushed Apple on price alone because of their manufacturing and marketing muscle. Apple would have gone bankrupt early on. The result: No iOS, iTunes, iPhone, no iPad, no Apple TV…
A quick look at economies without these protections shows the benefit to everyone. Because the Chinese take momentary advantage of this does not make it right or moral.
That YYF and others cooperate with Chinese manufacturers is more a function of our open markets than theirs.
A great example of the harm done is the recent case of solar-panel dumping that was just won by German solar panel manufacturers. The Chinese solar panel companies were PROVEN to be dumping as well as predatory in their pricing. Why? Because the Chinese government subsidizes this industry in order to gain scale. The result is the loss of high-wage jobs in the west and a dying solar industry as a whole. This complaint was filed with the US authorities. The result? The Chinese manufacturers INCREASED the shipment of these offending panels resulting in retroactive penalties against Chinese manufacturers when the case was decided against them.
This is only one example. There are more as well as many more not reported since there is no economic incentive to do so (not enough $ to make hiring lawyers worth it). Whether economically justifiable or not, these offenses cost jobs and lives. The only people who benefit are the factory owners and their financiers (Think: Mitt Romney, etc…).
As for Magic-Yo: Where do you think all those CNC machines came from? Who pays their salaries? Their health insurance; auto insurance; OSHA benefits and safety measures? From what source of funding? What currency do they use to buy materials? From where?
The ultimate question that one must consider is the quality of life. The Chinese are greatly increasing their quality of life. But that increased quality is the benefit of the creativity and innovation from our economies. Without this, the Chinese landscape would have remained unchanged. This is the heart of the debate. Yes, a system can always be gamed; but at what cost? I would rather pay $150 for a CLYW to ensure that there will more. Buying one for $30 just puts the innovators at CLYW out of business. That is why economists label this choice as a “disincentive”.
Think about it.
Thanks for the insight Geezer. I’m not really too bothered off willingly contributing a few bucks to MYY for these yoyo’s… but the thought of it (all goods) on a huge scale, which it is, is kind of eery… and does kind of bother me.
It amazes me everyday how the world doesn’t collapse in on itself. lol… think I’m just gonna go think about other things and play yoyo…
Also, just wanted to throw it out there… Apple’s crap is made in China, wonder if they could have done it without China manufacturing their products?
Geezer, I researched and read articles regarding the solar panel example. Based on the information you shared, I’ll hazard a guess that you read the same articles on Bloomberg.com.
You failed to mention the portion of that circumstance where U.S. companies are being investigated for price dumping on raw materials shipped to and sold in China.
So, I guess it works both ways?
Not too sure I understand this point…?
The CNC machines would probably have been manufactured in Japan or Germany. That said… they probably would have gotten their machines from a local agent or distributor. The metal too, I am sure they would purchase from a local supplier, and I am pretty sure they paid using RMB.
In much the same way, if you were wanting to buy a CNC machine or some aluminium, you would look up a local agent and pay in USD. If it was me, I’d look for South African suppliers and pay in ZAR. Not much of a conspiracy there?
I’ve done a lot of communication and a fair amount of business with both Chinese and American companies, and honestly, generally speaking, I’ve had much better and faster responses from the Chinese.
Maybe we’re reading too much into it? Maybe part of the reason they are successful is because they “generally” have more drive, passion and a higher work ethic compared to western nations? Less complacency, perhaps? I dunno, just throwing this thought into the mix…? Would you rather watch TV and eat a Big Mac, or slowly build up a successful business?
I like my T10…
Just got my T5 and T6 today in the mail. Quite happy with both of them! Dead smooth, generic concaves.
Now to wait until I ding one and see how much damage this “lower quality aluminum” takes.
I threw a pretty hard break away into my bed frame and the ding wasn’t that bad.
people are trippin if they think it’s going to crumple like an aluminum can or something.
Regardless, they sure could not have done it without the designs from Cupertino CA. and the operating system (iOS) from the USA.
I wonder where the machines came from to manufacture those products? China? Hardly.
Insulting the USA is something we usually reserve for ourselves. As for the drive and work ethic - well how about the drive and work ethic needed to create the iPhone or android? How about the work ethic needed to create Facebook? Disappointingly, this is lacking in Asia as a whole.
What Asia IS good at is mimicry. They are quite adept at stealing the ideas and inspiration of others and adopting it as their own. Suggesting that this was done without the requisite research and development is usually met with indignation and the suggestion that Western nations “just can’t compete”.
A great example of this is claiming that somehow a Chinese company bought and paid for a CNC machine in any way like a western company does. We buy our machines on the open market eith currency that is openly traded internationally. The Chinese company buys their machinery using state-subsidized “loans”; made in artificially valued currency (yuan/remnibi) and repays the “loan” in artificially valued currency into a banking system that is opaque at best. The cost of capital, capital equipment and the carry-cost of this equipment is all subsidized by the Communist state. Capital is ALLOCATED to industries; not competed for. Therefore, its valuation is artificial.
This is all moot. Why is Magic Yo not sold in the USA? Why do you have to buy it directly from China? These facts speak to the illegality of their practices.
I live in Portland Oregon - the place where Solar World builds its products. This has been big news recently so I have not relied on Bloomberg for any of my information. I know real people who work there and have been affected by this criminal behavior.
That China claims to be retaliating by “investigating” US dumping; is ludicrous. If you think that this is anything but typical Chinese smoke and mirrors intended to deflect criticism of their activities, you are foolish.
You’re overstepping the line of this being a friendly opportunity to share information and have a healthy debate. You may have an emotional investment here where others do not. Insulting people is no way to persuade them.
In what way have I “overstepped the line of this being a friendly opportunity to share information and have a healthy debate”?
I have not insulted you; I simply said that it is foolish to believe that the charges from the Chinese are anything but simple retaliation for a successful complaint. Trying to cite these ludicrous charges as evidence of US misbehavior is hypocrisy.
This thread is called “Thoughts on Magic Yo”. I have expressed my thoughts. If the facts are uncomfortable, you need not engage in further debate. Simply declaring that I have “overstepped” some imaginary boundary does not make it so. Neither does it make any of your points more truthful or important.
Just thought I’d mention that there are atleast two USA yoyo retailers who sell MYY.
