I’ve also heard that the Gauntlet is like a cross between a Grail and a Markmont Classic. What I’m thinking is that in terms of play / feel the yoyos go in this order:
Feel → Performance
MC → Gauntlet → Grail → Bowl 7068 → Life
I’ve heard a lot of hype for all of these yoyos (excluding the Gauntlet), and I was wondering if anyone has all of these yoyos and knows if this is about accurate?
This could all just be subjective and/or more like a branch shape than a line, so really I’m just curious to see what others think about this.
Switch the flow of feel to performance, and swap life with grail. That’s my educated guess. The only one of those I can attest for is the markmont classic, which is a very high performance organic.
The Bowl is a titanium Grail. Then it was converted into a 7068 version. It’s not an evolution of the Grail, just a ripped off design in a different material.
I was actually working on a review that touched on this. I don’t have any experience with the Gauntlet, but going from least competition oriented to most competition oriented, I’d put them this way:
Grail -> Bowl 7067 -> MC -> Life
With that being said, the Grail is my favorite, but the difference between any given step in this chain is pretty subtle.
Edit: The MC and the Life are pretty interchangeable here. Hard to say which is more comp. oriented actually.
I think you’d have to lay them out on a 2d chart instead of a line, so that you can separate rim-weight and wall-height into two different features of these yoyos.
This is often repeated but just straight up not true. While the Bowl is a clean organic with minimal cup, it has a bump reminiscent of ILYY stuff. The recent Buster is WAY more of a Grail copy than the Bowl ever was. I honestly think the people that perpetuate this myth never had a Bowl and a Grail in their hands at the same time. I have. They are similar, but there are distinct differences. There are a LOT of similar organic minimalist designs out there now so I’m not sure why some people continue to harp on Bowl being copy of the Grail. It’s just simply not at all. Elvin’s stuff evokes more of the spirit of ILYY than A-RT in my opinion.
I’d go with the Grail → Bowl → MC → Life order. Grail is the least stable most floaty least forgiving. Bowl is much more stable, but slightly edged out overall by MC (IRG adds rim weight and ability for thumb grind) followed by Life which is the best performing of them all.
I was part of the original group that was getting it going. I’ve got all of the original messages from the group as well. When Jensen found out about it he was, obviously, upset, that is when the ILYY bump came into play. I backed out because I wasn’t comfortable with the direction it was going.
Totally aware of all of the history, and as you said while the original purpose was to do a Ti Grail for a small group with no wide release, Elvin got negative feedback that he responded to with changes, ultimately gaining acceptance and understanding as the released product had those changes all incorporated.
So the final product is NOT a copy of the Grail. It’s just not. The project may have started out with that purpose, but then was revised and changed (ILYY bump, rounded rims, wall change) to make it a completely different yoyo.
If you know all that why would you say the final version is a copy when it isn’t? Changes were made before it was released to the public directly because of feedback he got about copying. He made those changes to avoid that (with blessings by the way) and still gets this kind of spin on the story. Doesn’t seem fair to me.
There’s just a lot of behind the scenes stuff with that yoyo. I’ll just leave it at that. Don’t want to argue, but it’s not as simple, or black/white as you’re making it, at least to me.
I’ve played everything but the Gauntlet, and the Bowl 7068 has the best finish IMO. I have a A-RT Life so its finish is the same to the Grail and the last MC run. I have an older MC that is more matte finish that I play the most. They all have characteristic that make them play subtlety different. I like the Bowl more than the Life, the Grail plays the lightest and MC is just the classic. Out of all of these listed, the Bowl however is the only one that has no One Drop in it. One that wasn’t mentioned is the Top Yo Origin which plays like a Life after eating a double Whopper from Burger King, I kind of enjoy the extra heft and it’s a budget.
I’d also add that organic is maybe the simplest yo-yo design of them all, so pretty much all organics are going to feel like copies of each other at some level??
I mean even in boring old straight V shape you tend to get much different cup shapes due to weight distribution as V is more about performance etc.
Yes and no. I think there are more possibilities that aren’t being explored. For example, design elements that started in organic shapes include aggressively undercut rims and schmoove rings, both of which were done to counteract limitations of the shape to provide more rim weighting and reduce string friction in the gap, respectively.
I’d argue that there is more to be done with organics but there is a sweet spot for weighting and specs that everyone sticks close to.
It would be interesting to see an organic with flat cup, undercut rims, and schmoove rings, for example. However, many organic shapes are not pushing the rim weighting so much because maybe that’s not what folks are looking for in this type of profile.
It’s a bit more subtle than I was thinking of, but you’re totally right.
I’ve been eyeing the Markmont Classic for a while now, but the Life really does look great.
For recent organics, what about something 54mm or smaller, but with extra rim weight for stability? Ugh…ok I’m looking again, and will answer my own question - the Sparrow is basically it - it already exists. Hmmm…how does the Sparrow play compared to an 888?
I haven’t heard much about the Bastet, is it any good? It doesn’t seem to be a cut and dry O-Shape/ Organic so for all I know I wouldn’t put it on this list. I would however put the MayheM on it. Where do you guys think that would be on the scale?
