On yoyo design


#1

This photo is apparently a cross section of the one drop cascade, I was wondering why one drop didn’t put all the rim weight on the very outside rim of the yoyo because I mean, isn’t that the ONLY good place to put weight on a yoyo? What would their purpose be in putting weight where they did?


#2

Placing the weight too far out is likely to cause a periodic, heartbeat wobble.


#3

Well from my observations having ALL the weight on the rim you carry spin for longer but your centre of balance is spread out more can give some vibe. I like to have a bit of core weight too because it makes play feel smoother and partially assists with situations when you’re string isn’t perfectly perpendicular to the bearing. It may have something to do with horizontal play too although I’ve never tried horizontal.

I could however be wrong about all of this though.


#4

Extreme rim weight is better for horizontal, but I’m not sure why.

The wobble/vibe mrcnja mentioned is the main reason to not go too extreme with rim weight, though. There’s also a different feel to a yoyo as it is thrown when the weight is in the middle. Overall, having mid-weight contributes to the characteristics we collectively call “float”, which is a desirable characteristic for many people.


#5

What would weight centered on or near the axle do to the play of the yoyo?


#6

Make it fast and less stable.


#7

extreme rim weight:
-increases spin
-resists tilting
-decreases speed
-prone to vibe


#8

Which type of speed, though?

Once the yoyo is at the end of the string and you are doing tricks, the overall mass is the only thing that matters. Rim-weighted yoyos are less agile for correcting tilt. I’m not honestly sure which design is faster for getting to the end of the string. Response and gap probably has more to do with than that weighting, though it’s absolutely going to be a factor.

But circling back around-- when most people refer to “speed”, they are talking about during play, mainly direction changes (pivoting). And for that, the weight distribution doesn’t matter.


(2Sick Joey) #9

To be technical there is weight all over the Yoyo. There is always weight in the center and the rims since it is a solid object. Rim weight is good but too much as indicated before can increase the likelihood of vibe. Having nice amount of rim weight while still spreading it out amongst the center and walls makes a much more likely smooth Yoyo.


#10

Good assessments. Agreed about your statement on overall mass for speed during tricks. However I believe more rim weight takes longer to get to the end of the string, so initial speed right off the throw is decreased some. You can feel it by the tug on your finger during the throw!

A good experiment is the Speeder 2 (without caps!!!) vs. Speed Freak. Very similar dimensions, shape, and base weight. But with the Speeder 2, with those heavy brass rims (and at a slightly bigger diameter), you can feel the extra resistance on the throw. It feels heavier and slower initially. But they can both change direction quickly after that because of their light weights!


#11

Definitely agree. That’s why I had to ask, “Which type of speed?” – my experience is that most people are referring to speed during tricks!


#12

Well said :slight_smile:


#13

The original X-Con is a good example of this. Requires a very good throw or it will wobble.


#14

False.

Higher rim weight will cause resistance to change, and therefor ‘slow’ play. “Float” as people call it, is actually a reference to RPM and how quickly/easily a yo-yo responds to the force you inflict upon it to change direction, which is all ultimately determined by the rim weighting of the yo-yo.

Center weight will get you to the end of the string faster, rim weight is slower… it has nothing to do with response/gap etc. with one aside to that.

A loose response system/huge gap will ‘waste’ more of your throw. At a certain point, the yo-yo releases the string and simply slides to the bottom without gaining any addition spin… on modern yo-yos, that’s usually about 1/3rd of the string length from the bottom. Technically this gets it to the bottom faster, but doesn’t add any spin to the yo-yo… it’s the ‘thunk’ in your throw.

You can test this easily enough… take a yo-yo, set it on a table, the palm of your hand, whatever… very slowly pull the string so that it starts to unwind while staying in position. At some point, it will ‘release’ and the string will just slide out. Pinch the string at that point and pull it out, see how much of your throw is totally wasted… it’s on average about 1/3rd of the string.

yes it does, see above.

Kyle


#15

This is gonna get messy.
fast.


#16

Sorry, Kyo. I respect you greatly, but you’ve got the physics wrong on this one. Different rim weights cause different moments of inertia on the throw. The spin “gets up to speed” differently from one yoyo to the next based on distribution. The gyroscopic properties are also different, so one is more prone to tilt and precession than the other.

But that doesn’t translate to changes along the playing plane that we’re talking about (ie. the same plane as the cup of the yoyo or the gap). Once at the end of the tether, two yoyos of the same dimensions but different weight distributions will be exactly the same “speed”.

I don’t agree that “float” is a reference to RPM, but if it is, you’ve already conflated the two things… the forces you force upon it to change direction are not forces to change the spin of the yoyo.

As your argument proceeds, you tell me that I’m wrong about response but then illustrate how I’m right about response. You’ll hear no argument from me that 1/3 is wasted or whatever (I believe you!) and that no additional spin is imparted (again, I believe you!) but that doesn’t address the original premise, which relies entirely on “once at the end of the tether”. None of that stuff has anything to do with my argument. It’s a straw man, but worse-- I actually agree with it, so you’re knocking down a straw man that I would happily smack around with you. :wink:

Your “see above” doesn’t actually work out for you, I’m afraid… because it’s self-referencing premises that aren’t a factor.


(⛷ Noisy Lurker) #17

Not necessarily. Differences in perspective and thought are good when shared through respectful dialogue.

I believe! :wink:


#18

Float as you describe it is an illusion. If Galileo were here, he would drop a center-weighted spinning yo-yo, a rim-weighted spinning yo-yo, and a non-spinning yo-yo, all with the same mass, and let gravity apply the same force to all of them. They would all hit the ground at the same time. The only difference would be air resistance, which is negligible.


#19

I love it when people say weight distribution doesn’t have anything to do with how a yoyo plays. And then proceed to tell people who have been making killer yoyos for a decade that they are wrong. I think Kyle’s got some more practical knowledge on the subject, guys.

Greg, are you saying that a Genesis will play the same as the way it does stock if I chop off the rims, cut them In small pieces and glue them to the cup? Same mass. Tell me that doesn’t sound ridiculous.


#20

Read through the thread carefully and what Greg said makes complete sense. He was always clear that he was talking about speed of play after the initial throw, excluding the tilt/stability. He qualified it everywhere.

Kyle is human. Making yo-yos for a decade doesn’t necessarily make you right about everything about yo-yos. In this case, we believe he is wrong.