I think asking for it ahead of time is one thing. But to expect it based on your personal preference alone or past transactions isn’t proper.
IMHO if a seller asks for $100, they should expect to get $100 and nothing more.
I think it’s up to the seller to set the price and to state if they want more for fees or not.
As a seller I never expect anyone to add money to cover fees.
As a buyer I always add money to cover fees.
With this philosophy you’ll never be in the wrong.
When I sell a yoyo, I want to make it easy for the buyer - the listing gives the price I want, and specifies goods and service, shipping included.
I’m not to lazy or math challenged to be able to figure out the PayPal fee or shipping cost.
I’m also of the mindset that if a seller posts “F&F or add the fee”, they don’t deserve my business. If they are too lazy to do some basic math, why should I expect they won’t be too lazy to pack the yoyo properly, or even go to the post office/drop it in the mail?
G&S isn’t like state sales tax that gets added in at checkout. PayPal’s T&C calls out the purpose of F&F and G&S. If I’m buying or selling something, I’m using G&S. If you ask me to pay F&F, you actually aren’t my friend, and, likely not in danger of becoming my friend.
Plus there is a psychological edge to “out the door” cost for a buyer. Feels like nothing is “hidden.”
Ok… my turn>
i’ve discussed this so many times i wrote a blog article about it. now when people ask me about it, i just send them the link
Should always be included. Especially if it is not mentioned. Just part of doing business.
If you want extra for fees, that should be explicitly stated. I find it strange and unnecessary if someone expects a buyer to add 3% for fees if it’s not explicitly stated. Especially since technically you shouldn’t even be charging extra for fees in the first place, so expecting it without explicitly stating it doesn’t make sense to me.
When I list a price I say $100 shipped, and I expect them to send $100 through G&S and I eat the cost of the fees. I will say it is definitely a nice gesture if someone sends F&F or covers the fees but I will never expect that from a buyer.
I think simplicity is the best policy. If a seller wants to net $100 on a sale, s/he should post an asking price that covers both shipping and PayPal G&S fees. Sure, $108 or whatever might look silly in a post, but that can avoid miffing a buyer because you post a price of “$100 shipped PayPal G&S” but don’t make it clear that you also expect them to cover the fee until you get to the PM stage. Put a sticker price that is all-inclusive. Not sure why that’s such an issue.
Exactly! I prefer all prices be all costs inclusive, including fees. "Fees included " shouldn’t even need to be said. Its not like we’re selling into some hyper competitive market where a 3% price difference is going to price you out of the market. That’s a problem for Andre and other yoyo shops, but not on a BST. BTW, no online yoyo shop asks me to add credit card fees.
If I ran a bst, any post which asked the buyer to pay fees would be removed. That would be the rule, live with it or go sell your junk somewhere else. That would help keep the scammers out and transactions would be simpler because I wouldn’t have to spend time talking to the seller to find out what’s expected. I don’t always have a lot of time, so if it isn’t clear I use G&S and tack 3% on. It annoys me every single time. Shipping is a far more variable expense, but most sellers include shipping in the price, or detail a shipping price. I cannot understand why sellers are OK with this and then have problems including a transaction fee.
I’ve seen too many problems where G&S wasn’t used, the buyer comes here upset, the community gets involved, etc. It would be far rarer if the rule was “Seller pays all transaction fees”, which would happen to match PayPal’s TOS.
I’ve been bitten twice (not here). One was f&f, the seller insisted I only use f&f, and I knew then I should walk immediately. That “mint” yoyo had been stripped, seller ghosted me when I complained. The second time I did use G&S, seller claimed shipped but no tracking, yoyo never arrived. I waited 60 days and then got my money back. Who knows if he really shipped it? Not my problem. If he’d used paypal’s service on G&S sales that gets you tracked shipping labels automatically, then we’d all know if the package even shipped. G&S only for me.
Brain games… I see no reason to establish Paypal fees as some sort of hinge point. (Example)> ‘I will sell this yoyo for $… but you must pay the fees’.
…You ever watch track meet? In most of the running events, the runners kneel down and set their feet in blocks pegged to the track. <> Assuring that they start off on the right foot.
…Think about it.
Selling a yoyo is also has a process. You start the game and the game hopefully comes to a happy ending for both seller and buyer.
You have a yoyo to sell. You decide how much you want to ‘clear’, regardless of fees or shipping.
You paid $150 for the yoyo. You decide you want to sell it to get another yoyo. You decide you want to clear $120. <<< At this point, nobody but you knows the price of the yoyo. So you calculate the (approx) paypal fee; about $3 per hundred. And you calculate Priority/insured for value $12.
So, when you post up. You state selling price is $133/$134 there about.
For sale. Yoyo for $133 shipped.(You decide final exact price. If the price is closer to 100, stay at $3… If it’s closer to $200, then bump up the fee accordingly.)
…Key point> decide what amount you want after the Smoke clears? Add fees and shipping to the posted price’.
Paypal fees are peanuts compared to yoyo prices.
Why throw around ‘who pays the fees’ Like it is some kind of deal maker or deal breaker?
I will sell the yoyo for X amount. But you have to Pay for this and Pay for that. PAYPAYPAY!
Establish the complete price, first.
Then, post the Price.
With very few exceptions, always use Goods and Services with Paypal. Worlds’ cheapest Insurance.
Paypal is a money moving service, Worldwide. They are not Non profit. They provide their services for reasonable fees. People that ‘cheap out’ and try dodging the fees get no Kleenex when deals go South.
what’s the over under, in weeks, of when this comes up again?
It’s not just G&S fees, but also shipping costs, which will usually be at least twice as much as the G&S fees. I’m in favor of rolling all of that into the final stated selling price so that the buyer doesn’t have to add anything to their payment. But that will make bargain-hunters have to think a little harder about whether or not a particular BST yoyo is actually a bargain.
Since it has been established as a subject of interest and concern.
What is the relevance of your question?
Some people don’t bother searching for topics previously discussed. They find it easier to just ‘ask’.
It is certainly not as screwy as the guys that post, ‘Hey guys… I left the yoyo scene 7 years ago. Please tell me everything that has happened while I was gone. Who is the World Champion? What is the Best yoyo out there today? Etc…
You posted right after my post, stating that when somebody asks about Paypal fees, etc. That you just post a link to an article you already wrote on the subject.
Which is exactly what I already did in the post directly above yours🤓
Yeah I sifted thought the BST topic but I didn’t actually search "paypal’ as a keyword. should have done that but this thread seems to have shed some light in both directions for people.
well, since it IS so important… and what i initially was going to say was… combine all the G&S threads, and sticky the DAMN thing to the top of the BST category… for it to be ignored
edit: or like i do, bump the g&s discussion post every so often so everybody is aware… not wait it out. be proactive, not reactive. who else goes out of their way to recommend g&s?
I like the idea of making it official YYE BST policy.