Yeah, I know tweaking response isn’t anything new. And dang today I learned. For some reason I thought Turbo Discs were introduced shortly after the SB2. I didn’t realize they weren’t introduced until the RD-1. At least that’s what a quick google search informed me of. I’m genuinely surprised since if you talk to a lot of people now, they’ll tell you playing with turbo discs/worn friction stickers/hockey tape dramatically improve a lot of the old TK bearing yoyos.
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Yes, I know what you mean. Maybe if they’d just said it was a responsive yoyo, right?
Your experience being different than mine is a good way of knowing that they’re based on different notions. You think you have to lube every bearing responsive to get them to play how you expect, and I think lube is just a tuning luxury. I don’t know which yoyos you’re talking about, and I don’t know how extensive your experiences are, but this is why I don’t think there’s any clarity in communication from advertisers that’ll satisfy beyond the technical, which is what they should stick to. I’m not certain, but I’m willing to bet I’ve picked up the exact same bearing responsive as you or someone else here, and they thought it wasn’t responsive enough while I thought it was exactly responsive. And I do know how it feels, because even I’ve picked up a responsive yoyo that I didn’t want to play because it was too responsive for my tastes. Nobody told me it was going to be like that, and it wasn’t what I wanted, and I don’t think they miscommunicated. It’s my opinion that personal judgment is what will matter most in the end, and personal judgment is subjective, so there’s seemingly no perfect way to communicate the experiences without having them yourself.
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I don’t think they mean the bumblebee isn’t responsive enough. I think they mean the bumblebee was sold to them specifically as a yoyo that could be easily switched to fully responsive. They should’ve just advertised it as what it was. Responsive. I think it’s silly to advertise a premium priced yoyo (for people who already love yoyos…) as a yoyo that can be adjusted easily to the player’s tastes. The people who are buying your $60 or $70 yoyo already know they can do that to literally any yoyo they have. It’s one thing to sell a fast 201 that way, since it’s pretty much the whole gimmick, and worst case scenario, the player is out $15, but the shady advertising for bumblebee (who certainly aren’t the only ones doing it) only leaves excited newer players jaded. They need to call it responsive or unresponsive and leave it at that. At least that way, the consumer is more aware of their personal risk.
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I mentioned earlier in the thread that I actually heavily prefer fixies over bearing response in general. So for me when I look at bearing responsives it’s mostly trying to chase that fixed axle feel. My preferred playstyle just focused around stalls and loops mostly. My favorite bearing responsives are the RBC and Alleycat 650b, but honestly I’d rather play a stock Duncan butterfly over both of them. Maybe that’ll explain my perspective a bit better. This thread wasn’t really about my preferences though and more just about the general idea of how modern responsive yoyos are advertised and set up stock.
be ed haponik
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Exactly. Your tastes are your tastes. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it’s actually a huge part of the fun.
For example, I wouldn’t be caught dead with a butterfly. I have no good experience and no depth of experience for the genre, so I’m disappointed in the play. I don’t want it. Things like that. Unless I’m in the mood to branch out and explore and open my mind to the possibilities and joys of the style, it’s all but written off by me because of my biases.
Our perspectives always play a part in our experiences. That’s why I say if players want to understand their yoyos, they’ll put in the effort, and that’s not that I condone misleading advertising. Silver lining for me is that someday I’ll understand this yoyo I’m messing with and why people actually love it. The testaments and reviews and seeing where others are coming from are some of the best ways for me to know what I’m getting into. I consider no advertising to be honest. They’re trying to sell me something for my money, after all.
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My bottom line is: I feel your pain, players who don’t get what you’re looking for in a journey, but you’ll get way better at discerning what kind of yoyo you like and want and are happy to spend your money on through that pain. They’re never going to be able to adequately share with you what it’s like to throw this yoyo you’re salivating over just like they couldn’t tell you at the pizza shop how much you’ll actually enjoy each kind of pizza or their pizza over others, but they are obligated to those dollars more than they are to you, which is uncaring and won’t change. You’ll find the ones you’re looking for and more. You’ll find surprises where you didn’t expect just like you find disappointments you didn’t expect. Never stop trying them if your joy is in the play.
Can you elaborate more on what the difference between “Fully Responsive” and “Responsive” is in your mind? Prior to this discussion, I would have considered those to be functionally equivalent to each other, but your phrasing seems to suggest that “Responsive” and “Unresponsive” are objective categories while “Fully Responsive” is a subjective judgement of the responsiveness of a “Responsive” yoyo.
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I think you get it. I don’t think there’s a difference, functionally, either. Some players do, though, especially when it’s specifically advertised to them, which is understandable, and that’s why they’re looking for some clarity. They’ve seen the companies advertise different levels of response, such as full response, which is just an advertising technique, and they’re disappointed because the yoyo they got isn’t special that way that it’s advertised. The thread is about how to more effectively communicate these levels of responses that are subject to the player’s discernment and styles and skills, and I think the qualifiers should just be dropped. It’s responsive or unresponsive, and you have to be a little careful and a little risky and a little ready for the adventure of what you get.
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I recall that the different response level nomenclature “semi-responsive” was something Doc Pop came up with to help communicate the difference between responsive yoyos that were good for stall-style play (eg. no lag between tug and response even at lower RPMs) and ones that weren’t. The least responsive of my responsive yoyos are good for flyaway dismounts after string tricks, and forward pass, maybe, but not many of the stall-style tricks or shooting the moon.
I feel like the most accurate ways to convey a yoyo’s intended playstyle is with videos, and secondly by indicating the types of tricks it’s best for. I also think that “one size fits many” is very difficult to design and verify.
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Yeah, and as a player, there is no all around yoyo that I want. It’s impossible. That’s why I have many and appreciate them for what they are. Some for challenge, some for enlightenment, some for comfort, and all of them are out there to find. Unless it’s cheap or a training yoyo, one size fits most shouldn’t be a goal, and for all of our favorite yoyos, it wasn’t.