The symbol of American yoyoing?

You know I’m right here, don’t you?


Yes, don’t care.

Then I don’t care who you are either.

I’ve read your posts with enthusiasm. Until this one.

Do some research.

Just my opinion.


Ok so this has seemed spun out from the original question. Patents are the symbol American yo-yoing? I think the original idea was to discus possible players, manufactures (less all the legal stuff), yoyos or maybe even a style play.

^ I said that pages ago.,74401.msg835655.html#msg835655

Once it’s gone this far, it is what it is.  Too late for that.  :smiley:

I get a few of these every year.

Oddly, when given the opportunity, none of them have ever been this rude to me in person. :-*

Shai Hulud - If you don’t know someone, or anything about them, maybe don’t openly insult them in a public forum. It definitely weakens your position when you’re trying to set yourself up as the new expert here and you spin off at the mouth about things you know nothing about. While plenty of people don’t like me for totally valid reasons, even the people who don’t like me can admit that I really do know what I’m talking about, even if I can sometimes be a bit of a jerk about it.

The patent for 5A was never meant to protect the “style” of play, it was meant to make me some money for a few years off the equipment. Had I realized that it would actually cause more harm than good, I would never have allowed the application to be submitted, period.

The patent was filed on my behalf by Flambeau Products / Duncan Toys, and permanently assigned to them as payment for the filing costs and defense. Patents are ludicrously expensive, and I knew I’d never have the resources for it. I was 24 years old at the time, and as you can clearly see from the behavior of some people on this forum, the average 24-year old cannot be counted on to know anything about anything. So, at the time, it seemed like a way for me to HOLY CRAP HAVE A PATENT, and guarantee some royalties from my shiny new employer. We were still in the honeymoon phase, after all, and it sounded like a great idea at the time.

What 24 year old, upon inventing something that is admittedly as sure-fire awesome as a totally new way of playing with a two thousand year old toy, would not want the world’s largest manufacturer of said toys to pay them to make them, slap their face on the packaging, and then send them all around the world to promote it?

It sounds like a pretty sweet deal, and it would have been if I’d done it right. If I’d held out for a better royalty rate (I didn’t), if I’d put in some kind of buy-out clause if I ever left the company (wish I had), if I’d put in some kind of clause that guaranteed I had some control over licensing decisions (argghh), if I had done it RIGHT, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all. And every single yoyo company would sell at least one counterweight model, and I would have money to bring my kids to Worlds in Prague for their summer vacation (they’re adorable).

But I didn’t do it right, and the reason I didn’t do it right is because I wasn’t greedy enough. It never occurred to me that I should ask for more, because they little bit they offered me sounded like the world for a white trash kid from Florida who barely made it out of high school. It was so much more than I had that it never for a second occurred to me that it was well below industry standard.

So, the reason we’re all in this ridiculous counterweight patent mess in the first place is because 24-year old Steve Brown thought the best of people, and couldn’t believe his luck, and wasn’t greedy at all. If I had been exactly the kind of awful person that Shai Hulud clearly thinks I am, counterweight play would be better off, the license would be cheap enough for everyone to utilize it, and I’d have forum trolls picking me apart for a completely different reason. (Probably my general attitude towards ignorant forum trolls, which is absolutely deplorable, let me tell you.)


I’m learning a decent amount from this thread. It’s proving to be pretty educational with regards to patent law/yoyo history and the like. :slight_smile:


But… I…

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No worries…you’re above average. ;D

But for the record, I was the poster child for ignorant 24-year olds. It’s a wonder I survived at all.


Most 24 year olds are the post child for ignorant 24-year olds. It is a wonder how the human race survived.

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Hey, with all the stupid stuff I do at 15, I wonder what I’ll do at 24 lol


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Why do you think I’ve put in so much work to promote yoyoing since then?



Wow, a lot has been explained in this thread, sorry if I was mean to you Steve.

I’m still wondering though, would you mind telling us when the patent ends?

You totally don’t have to! I’m just wondering what year I should put my 5A yoyo into production. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’m not saying Shai is conspicuously lacking a follow-up reply to the history lesson. But I’m also not NOT saying that.

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I hadn’t checked the thread again until now. But WOW…failing to exude obeisance for yoyo celebrities sure brings out the vitriol.

Maybe I’ll sift through the various lies and distortions in response to what I said later. Right now I’m going to sleep.

I would hardly call it vitriol. :wink: I have absolutely zero hard feelings towards you, Shai. Still don’t even after your defensive reply! You are usually (based on the short time you’ve been active!) very involved and interested in your ongoing conversations and reply to bumps multiple times daily while the conversation is hot. It was pretty conspicuous that you hadn’t replied to this one yet simply because it didn’t follow your usual modus operandi. That’s all. I would find it difficult to believe you hadn’t seen the thread… but who am I to say? Not interested in trying to “prove” it. :wink:

The vitriol seems to be coming from your end, though: “sift through the various lies and distortions”? That sounds like it contains a lot more anger than my “eyebrow raised” reply. I hope while you’re “sifting through” you will at least keep an open mind to the idea that… you may have been wrong…

I don’t think Steve saying, “Ugh, here are some of the mistakes of an eager 24-year old!” can possibly be taken as lies and distortions of what YOU said.

And it’s not “exuding obeisance” to show a little g-d respect, man. If you were talking smack about any other non-“celebrity”, you would have met with the same reaction. If anything, if it was someone less well-known than Steve, you might not have felt like you had to toe up and put on a big man show. You might have just apologized already like you should have.

Still not angry at you. :wink: You’re an awesome contributor and a heck of a smart guy. Ain’t nobody got time for enemies and I’m not looking for one! Hope you don’t take this too personally. (impossible not to take it a LITTLE personally when you’re getting pushed into a corner, but I hope the dust settles and we’re fine in the end)


The patent expires in 2020. I’m looking forward to it, possibly more than anyone else.

This thread is making me so angry I am just posting to notify you folks that I am too mad to post anything.

Sniping at one of the few ‘yoyoexperts’ that still has the patience to bother to respond to the forum any more, well that just really steams my bean. When all the quality contributors are driven away, you will be left with Tiger Beat for yo-yos… who’s cuter, Justin Bieber or Jensen Kimmett?

Wait, did I post that or just think it? I think I’ll go to sleep too.

I think we can all agree that of all the pros in the world who would still have the patience for this place, ME being one of the last ones standing is something no one saw coming.

André, mark this date! LOL


All the other experts took the gift card and ran.