Is the YoyoJam Patent dead?

I assume it’ll be sold here. It was pulled from international sites until the 13th. Apparently they got a little click-happy listing it lol.

:smiley:

Put yourself in the reference frame of the innovator, the inventor. You work independently and come up with/create/develop a new idea or concept. That’s your idea, not anyone else’s. Our patent system was set up to protect and allow the inventor the opportunity to control their ideas and concepts for a limited number of years. If the inventor decides to capitalize on their idea in that time frame, even better, as it creates commerce. Everyone else in the world is not entitled to the inventors ideas, at least for a number of years. If they want it during the protection period, they will most likely have to pay for it, in terms of buying a product/service that uses the idea, or pay a license fee to be allowed to produce a product that utilizes the idea in order for them (not the original inventor) to benefit from the idea as well.

Going overseas to produce and sell a product that violates someone’s rights may be perfectly legal in a country that does not recognize the holder’s rights, but that does not make it ethical. If everyone is “entitled” to every new idea, the incentive for creating new ideas and concepts is diminished and society’s advancement and development stagnates. Think about it…

db

P.S. One unfortunate side effect of today’s system in the USA comes to us courtesy of the patent trolls, individuals or companies who simply negotiate/purchase patent rights from their holders, and then, as the new patent rights owners with their armies of lawyers, chase around after any potential violator in order to generate income. That’s an entirely different issue…

1 Like

Despite most patent officers being very bright and capable people, many awarded patents are for concepts that shouldn’t really be patentable. Then an innovator who is doing something interesting, different, and potentially profitable feel blocked by broadly-sweeping patents that they can’t afford to challenge.

The system only works (and even that is debatable) in a flawless world where every patent is exactly as specific as it needs to be.

Since that doesn’t happen, the whole system is suspect and shaky.

YYE posted the Space Cowboy on their FB page just last night… Seems logical that it will be here soon!! I had a chance to play it yesterday and it played great!!! The area where the SS joins the AL on the rim is a tad sharp though. But all in all it was an awesome throwing experience…

With that said maybe this will bring the newer yoyorec’s back to the US market…

Exactly. Now, whether YYJ’s patent should or shouldn’t have been patentable, is a different debate.

I’d argue, from my limited knowledge of excerpts of the patent posted here, that the patent is a bit vague. I don’t discredit that innovators ideas deserve protection through patents… But only when they’re talking specifics about what they’re patenting.

When vague descriptions are allowed to become a fully fledged patent, we end up with situations like Apple suing Samsung over the production of a phone that is rectangular and has rounded corners. Stuff like that is total BS. It’s ridiculously vague, and clearly was written that way to try and exclude as many other manufacturers from producing a smartphone in the most logical shape.

Now, YYJ’s patent sounds a bit more detailed than “a rectangle with rounded corners”, but it’s still more vague than it should be. In my opinion, the patent should cover the specific process that they designed to mold plastic and metal together, not just that they are the only ones who can produce a yoyo with metal rims. I know that’s not exactly what the patent is, but I’m summarizing.

Trying to protect anything in such a vague manner stifles competition, and in turn, innovation. And in an industry as small as yoyos, I can see that being excessive protection of an idea. Companies just simply can’t fight it, or their profit margins can’t allow them to pay licensing fees, so we’re stuck with only a select few attempts by bigger companies producing yoyos with rims made of a different material than the body.

1 Like

I didn’t say it wasn’t your opinion or that there was anything wrong with you having one. I simply wanted you to elaborate on your opinion because I was curious about your thought process on this. Thank you for doing so.

Why? Only the very rich should get protections for their inventions?

3 Likes

2 Likes

+1 for Tom Baker

1 Like

:smiley:

1 Like

Hooray! Debate and discussion!

Great comments and questions! The previous patent system was based on the concept of “first to invent”, so documentation of prior art was absolutely critical, especially if someone else came up with and documented the concept prior to a patent filing. In the pre-internet days finding all prior art, or even someone else who had the same concept and documented was not trivial. But, if you had the idea first and documented it, it could prevent someone else from receiving a patent.

As of March 16, 2013, under the America Invents Act, the process is now “first to file”, no longer “first to invent”. So if you have an idea, and you want to protect it, there is incentive to as soon as you can. No one says you have to protect your idea, but you have the opportunity to (at a seriously unfortunate cost…but that’s another discussion :P).

As to the value of an idea, that depends on the individual. If you have an idea and have no desire to create personal or societal benefits from it, it could sit in a drawer. Or, you pass the idea on to someone else who may decide to benefit from it. Under the new laws, the second party, or anyone else could file file for a patent on the idea, and you have no recourse. There still exists, however, a well-defined concept of “prior use” that could prevent the patent from being granted.

It really comes down to the individual inventor and what they want to do with their own ideas…

Absolutely agree! Judgments and actions from the past must be taken in the context of the then existing accepted norms, morals, etc… Even today two individuals discussing or debating “whatever” bring their own personal concepts of morals, values, and ethics. It’s expected that we don’t or can’t always agree, that’s fine with me. The world would be a very boring place to me if we all thought alike.

True that! :slight_smile: I can’t prove it definitively, but I could provide some examples supporting my viewpoint, and then you could provide some supporting yours and the discussion would go on… :slight_smile:

Then I’d stop and look at where we’ve gotten to, realize that I’m years beyond having to write another example-based opinion term paper, and say, let’s go play with yoyos!

db

Technically speaking with patents Is anyone cab use them as Long as the get permission from the person who created the idea. that and also usually when it’s stuff like this the creator of the idea usually wants a dollar or 2 for every Yoyo sold.

But not everyone who holds a patent is willing to license it, even for money. And when they are, the person who wants to use that idea might not have the desire or the means to license the idea. Especially if they disagree with the validity of the patent (as mentioned earlier, patent officers are not infallible).

:smiley:

Quote from another thread (Thanks MikeP):

“YYE posted the Space Cowboy on their FB page just last night… Seems logical that it will be here soon!!”

This was the point of this post. If YYE; or any other American retailer, starts selling the Space Cowboy without paying a license fee to YYJ; then it will send a signal to the marketplace that the traditional interpretation of the YYJ patent is now dead.

I will wait until the Space Cowboy shows up on an American site before I post my thoughts on this, however…

Edit: Does anyone know for sure whether it will be coming to the USA? Normally, I would score this from the first site that I could find one. In this case, however, I would like to purchase one from a US retailer because of principal. Buying this yoyo from a US retailer would feel liberating!

…but your opinion is still wrong…! (db quickly runs for cover… ;D)

db

P.S. @Jerrod…nice discussion! Have a great weekend!

1 Like

Yep. Confirmed by YYF on IG. Look for it tomorrow. 8)

1 Like

I guess this would fall under the old adage “Great minds think alike”.

With seven billion people in this world there is bound to be someone else on this little blue marble that thinks similarly to you and will come up with similar ideas. The what ifs you are posing here have merit and spark some great discussion. My own view on what you said is that ideas have different levels of value to different people. The ones you say didn’t express it or didn’t write them down may have placed a lower value on the idea while the ones that went ahead and written down, published, and maybe even patented it, placed a higher value on the idea. The idea itself is the same with the differences being the independent conceivers of it.

As for expressing an idea after someone els, this is a little bit of a tricky area. With the advent of the internet we have become a much more global community. While this is a great thing, it also allows for more accidental influences from outside sources. People that have an idea after another could have read about it in passing months if not years earlier and then one day, while thinking about a problem, vaguely remember bits from what they have read earlier to come up with their creative solution. While they have not set out to steal someone else’s ideas they may be inadvertently done so.

Thank you for posting, it has sparked some great discussion.

Ahhh, feels like only yesterday when a Aoda and Auldey were getting ragged on because they made some yoyos with a plastic body and metal rims…