Organics tend to also lack stability and spin time compared to most compotiton throws. This doesnt mean you cant win a competition with an organic yoyo.
A few of my organics are just as powerful and stable as most of my comp throws. My thunderberry could hang with any of my other throws
I agree with you honestly I have a Yoyofreinds koi and even compared to some bi-metals it can hang with them. However I still think that “competition” yoyos do perform better than organics. Organics really dont have as large of a catch zone compared to a v shape, making it harder to land tricks. Again, you really dont need a “competition” yoyo to win a competition. It just helps when your on stage, you want all the advantages you can get.
I guess I just love me some organics and feel it wouldn’t really hold me back from learning anything… If anything only makes me better cause it can be a bit more challenging. I also feel like some of my tricks are easier with a few of my organics and makes regens easier
Your logic is correct. Any yoyo can be a comp yoyo if you actually use it for a competiton.
The thing is that when players are competing, a yoyo having certain characteristics (like width and stabilty) helps amp up their trick landing consistency on stage, which is very important for obvious reasons. A trick missed can make the difference on a podium (see gentry vs evan on wyyc2019).
When you hear “its fun but not for comp”, thats just a mashup of different concepts and opinions filtered through a case of broken telephone.
When a yoyo presents a design that does not have the objective of aiding the player with their consistency on stage, then thats usually called a “non-competition” yoyo. Not because you can’t use it on comp, but because it doesnt have the characteristics mentioned above that could help a players with trick landing consistency.
Over the times, people just midlessly repeat that, creating the sort of misinformation phenomena that you are wondering about right now.
If you would like to see a more statistical based approach to a real life example, I made a surface level statistical analysis on podium placing and yoyo choice for the online Scales Open 3 yoyo competition.
I focus on things like construction, width, weight and even brand choice. I think its very interesting to see how the trends (and also the deviant data) on those types of yoyo characteristics look on a real life example of a competition.
Going back to Jensen, he used to do horizontal on a Wooly Marmot 1 during competitions.
It just depends on what you practice with and how much you practice.
Can’t get the video to embed, really great routine.
This was exactly my point! an undersized funky organic h shape haha and Kimmet boy could stop the earth from rotating
I also feel like the defining line of competition yoyos is a fluid thing. Right now horizontal is the popular trend therefor you will see designs that lend well to horizontal play become the more “competetion” style throws. Say gyro flops become the next hot thing, to be fair I know this isnt going to be the case, you will see a big shift in what is designated a competition throw.
The beauty of where the yoyo industry is today is that even 20 dollar plastics can pump out more than what the average player can throw at them. The baseline performance level today is so much higher than that of times past, so in the right hands nearly anything can become a throw worthy of competition.
Ok. Here’s the deal (to my knowledge).
If you want to be successful in competition, you’re going to have to have a large variety of tricks. Speed, tech, slack, horizontal, around the body hops, etc.
This is not only because it is hard to have enough unique elements to score high in technical execution without many types of tricks, but also because a decent portion of the scoring looks at the variety of tricks you present.
SO, yoyos designed for competition need to be able to handle pretty much any kind of trick. This means they need a powerful spin. It also means they need low walls, to prevent string contact on the walls both vertically, and for horizontal yoyoing. They need to have a wide catch zone for hop tricks.
You can see how this is starting to sound like the typical competition yoyo shape.
Some organic yoyos might be powerful, they might be good a tech, but they’re pretty much going to be universally worse for horizontal, speed, and difficult hop combos. So they are good at some things, not others.
A (well executed) competition shape should be good for everything. Period.
The video you showed has no horizontal. It has no railing combos. That routine (while an incredible display of skill) would not place well in competition.
Am I correct in believing that even though Gentry Stein won 2015 Nats with an organic plastic yoyo (the Replay Pro), he did not try to compete in World’s with it. He went back to his Shutter, didn’t he?
A side note:
I have seen users here cite examples of people who have done well in competitions with yoyos that are not a typical competition shape. Yes this is possible. But it means that the yoyoer has to do extra work/practice, and have extra skill.
Yes, I know that Jensen Kimmit has done horizontal on a Canvas. That does not mean that he wouldn’t be able to do that combo more easily (or a longer horizontal combo) on a Draupnir.
Also, with the skill level for competition being so high these days, competitive speed and horizontal combos are really pushing the boundries of what it is possible to do at all with a yoyo. The more extreme horizontal combos (which are pretty much standard these days at contests) would be all but impossible on an organic yoyo.
I both agree and disagree with this. While the competition scene definitely has popular elements that come and go, at the end of the day, it is going to be about the highest skilled yoyoers trying to score as highly as possible in a given time.
The reason that horizontal is popular is because it scores very well. Elements performed horizontally are harder, and therefore will aid in the difficulty category in the scoring.
Things like horizontal and railing combos are going to be around for the foreseeable future, not because they’re “the hot thing on the scene” but because they score REALLY well.
Until the rules change (which I have not heard anything about happening any time soon) these things will be around.
Yes. This is correct. He only used Replay for Nats. Worlds he used Shutter.
I can accept that extension and clarification on my opinion lol. Well said
Now this is the perfect opportunity for me to talk about 3D tricks! 3D tricks are tricks where the yoyo is moving outside of its plane. Here is an example (it’s at 44s)
These tricks quickly diminish your spintime and will destroy any organic yoyo
Thanks! But yeah, you’re totally right, there are a lot of those “meta” elements that people just love, and then ditch after a couple years.
Like those infernal hooks that everyone and their dog did for a few years haha
I think comp yoyoing needs a different judging system.
I 100% agree. I know a lot of people were disappointed with Gentry’s routine at the last contest.
It’s the system’s fault, not the player’s.
I’d love to see more of an emphasis on musicality, stage presence, and overall performance quality.