What about your favorites make them special to you? It’s interesting to hear. Maybe it’d enlighten anybody who wanted a full understanding of the yoyo.
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I’m glad the finish and the colors were brought up for the koi, because I think those are standouts. The feel and look of it speak to me with beauty, and playing it is some poetry. I agree with it having its limits, and playing with it is relaxing in many ways. It satisfies and has a personality of its own to me. I’m not just using a yoyo, and it doesn’t want more than it gets from me. It’s a friendly and capable toy, and it’s got things to show off and try, and it’s got comfort and satisfaction to offer.
For me and maybe for some, it’s the kind of yoyo that gets me some harmony. I find myself not needing to try some similar yoyos for anything but what they are because the koi exists. I also find myself talking myself out of buying more koi colors haha.
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I love organic shapes that offer modern performance. I only like organic shapes for the comfort/feel in hand, they also are much safer when you accidentally smack yourself in the face. I don’t like living in the past or o’s for the nostalgic feeling. The Elysium, Mc, Mcmo all offer the best of both… Comfortable o shape with plenty of performance/stability to get you through the hardest trick sets with ease. All 3 offer great performance, stability, power while still feeling amazing on the string.
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I don’t think the koi is that way. I consider it more of an innovation or evolution. I wouldn’t put older organic yoyos in the same league. It may not be best for something you need it for considering what you like best in a yoyo, but I do think it’s better than what’s come before.
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Noone likes the MOWL Q??
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I have a lot of love for the Q.
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What do you like about it?
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This might turn into that second post, because I have a lot of jumbled thoughts to share that concern a few specifics about the yoyos mentioned, and more broadly speaking my philosophy on reviews/commentary. Let’s see what we can pull out of this mess.
First off, I need to clarify something - I was precise with my language in the introduction, for a reason. All of the yoyos mentioned there fall under the blanket statement that mentions “a number of excellent organic yoyos”. I think I can safely assume that most of us understand how high the floor is with regard to current manufacturers that produce and sell significant numbers of yoyos - one of the “worst” active ones is making $10 monometals that function well enough to win competitions, and stepping up to the $30 range introduces a handful of the most capable yoyos ever produced. Modern manufacturing really is something else. When I say that a yoyo was a “disappointment”, that is relative to a yoyo or yoyos that edged it out by micrometers of subjective criteria - which isn’t to say that those things don’t matter, but it’s important to keep my perspective grounded.
Second, the list in the OP was shared in order to provide some context for why I find certain yoyos to stand out or possess some extraordinary feature, and help the reader understand my perspective and preferences. It’s not an objective hierarchy. CallMeCotton, I can’t help but feel that you are missing the point if your takeaway is that the Mk1 Contact is somehow a “worse” yoyo than the Grail or that the MCMO’s performance is being called into question.
The way I tend to approach judging a new yoyo (perhaps unfortunately for you guys who have questions about my list) doesn’t really involve a constant rationale. Opinions are largely built from observation and preconception, and I think the most interesting distillation of these two things is how something makes us feel, which tends to make things a whole lot less objective.
The Mk1 Contact was an interesting yoyo to me, and one that I kept around for some time. It was my first encounter with a lightweight, borderline-oversized yoyo, and I did appreciate that about it. I love most of Mk1’s designs, the open-source philosophy that Mark has about yoyo design, and the way the guy backs up his work. The Exia is one of the best-feeling and performing bimetals I’ve ever thrown. I had pretty high expectations coming into owning a Contact, but it fell short in a number of areas for me. There were visible machining marks under the ano. Vibe that I couldn’t tune out. The bearing seat’s machining appeared “off” and did not seem to be holding up well to bearing removal. The response system felt clumsy to me, and I don’t like stepped responses on the majority of my organics anyway (there are a few exceptions). I think it felt like a by-the-numbers attempt to take the Grail a small step further with respect to the areas where the Grail pushed the bill, and I didn’t like where the Contact ended up.
There was no one issue that stood out as a glaring flaw in the design or execution (and no one flaw that would have caused me to get rid of it), just a bunch of small qualms that added up to a sale for me. I’m sure there are smooth ones without machining flaws out there, and it’s possible that the bearing seat had been abused before I got mine, but the Contact’s play did not stand out enough for me to seek a replacement.
The MCMO was another story entirely. I think Mark M’s idea for a yoyo that was “organic and stable, but not too stable” with an emphasis on “control” (I’m paraphrasing here) is the right sort of design prompt: open-ended, but with a specific goal in mind as far as feel is concerned. The MCMO I had was a great performer, but ultimately felt to me like an H-shape hidden inside an O. I think this is primarily a virtue of the stepped response, and to a lesser degree the rim weighting and walls with a sharper incline than some contemporary designs. Cool idea, not for me, fell for the widespread opinion, yada yada. No complaints about anything else.
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oh okay this post makes everything more clear… You didnt really give any context in the first one. My experience with the contact was much different. Dead smooth and perfect qc. Maybe a bgrade slipped through
Very well said, it was interesting hearing your thoughts on these throws. You make fair points about the weight distribution of the magnum opus. The classic has more personality to me, but it’s understandable that the more aggressive design of the magnum opus can be weirdly forgiving for an organic yo.
So the MCMO’s disappointment is that it was an H-Shape? I can understand that sentiment because I’ve always felt like the MMC gave me “competitive o shape” sort of vibes.
Do you think that if the same weight distribution applied to a Koi shape would’ve been more to your flavor?
I thought it was great. I understand what you’re saying about them, and none of them are bad. I like getting to read about the different attributes people think add to the experience of each. Seeing them through all the eyes is interesting no matter what.
Comp o is my absolute favorite 
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I feel like organics are maybe the most divided shape. Having high walled and stepped low walled designs both being common while falling under the same “organic” moniker makes it feel like such a broad shape. Since midwalls have disappeared from like every other yoyo shape, it seems like this divide is left for organic yoyos only.
You’ve got people who prefer organics just because they’re very comfortable to play while not sacrificing performance in a meaningful way (MCMO/Cloudberry enjoyers), and people who prefer organics specifically because they enjoy high walled designs (Freehand respecters).
Personally I like both, because I just kind of enjoy almost every yoyo lol. But it’d be pretty reasonable to really enjoy one but not the other.
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interesting thread! love organics because there’s quite a few ways to go about them. i gotta agree that the grail is a bit overy mystified but if it clicks with you it really clicks! i may be a bit biased here considering i prefer mid to undersized like the rebirth but the sparrow really stuck out to me more.
the grail felt feels so soft and gentle on the string but i like a bit more weight on my throws so its little brother resonated with me more. i always pined for the woooly marmot 2 and i got to try one that too, but the sparrow was just love at first throw. still got that float but has more heft to it. i got a spyder and it has scratched that sparrow itch but i definitely am getting one of those smol birbs one day.
the koi and the mmc on the other hand are on the other side of the spectrum for me. these are more robust, powerful throws. i was actually surprised by how heavy the mmc felt and that was with the aluminum SE’s. these throws have the comfort of the O shape but hide the stability and power of more aggressive shapes. H shape hiding behind an organic is a good description and may not be for everyone either
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In short, yes and yes. I was also disappointed in the MCMO for a few other minor reasons related to my expectations, but it basically boils down to that (or more broadly, just not living up to expectations). I think sunnovagun hit the nail on the head - the Koi sort of already is that conceptual yoyo. Shave a few grams without changing the distribution too much and bam, you’d probably have a feel similar to what you’ve described here.
I am thinking about doing a compare/contrast of the Saboteur and Sistine/Bowl 7068 to illustrate the differences in design philosophy I see between some of my A-listers and yoyos that I see as being based on a less focused concept. I think one of the niche comparisons that captures the idea rather well is EDH deckbuilding in MTG: namely goodstuff decks vs. decks that have a singular, unconventional focus.
I don’t mind sharing my thoughts when people ask, but I’m not really interested in doing full reviews on all of the yoyos that I have listed. I think it’d be a lot more fun to use a compare/contrast review as a vehicle to discuss one or more of the bigger concepts at play here.
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I’d love to try one. Holding out for a wash/solid on the BST.
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The interesting thing to me is that the topic of discussion (MMC/MCMO) is the yoyo that literally changed the definition of organic from what I can tell.
If you search organic threads on this forum from pre 2013~, they don’t even consider the Cascade Organic at the time.
MMC literally flipped the mindset of an entire community to file it as an organic.
To me, it’s become an umbrella term for “round and comfy”
Under that umbrella i cut it in half. “Pure organics” that have no steps, schmooves, etc, FH, Koi, Bape… Then everything else is “modern organic” or “competitive organic” that has step lips, schmooves, or any sort of derivitive of these concepts like Grail, MMC, Atmos, etc. I mean, if you file a MMC under organic, then a Duncan GTR should be too.
I’d like to see the community start to evolve our terms along with the evolution of yoyos and their designs. “Organic” is too much of a blanket term.
I’m personally with you on both. The MMC and YWET get the most playtime from me, so I love both equally. But I can see why someone would lean one way or another - at times I feel the MMC is too wide, and then at times I feel the YWET is too slim - so swapping between the two makes the most sense to me.
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You know it. MMC gang <3
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Yeah I can understand your sentiments on that, the Koi is definitely a comfy yoyo. To me, it felt like what should be the “standard organic” I wouldn’t dare say it’s basic, but that’s what I got out of it in a good way. It’s “balanced” to the point of where it’s “just right” which lands it into a sort of standard format that’s like a shutter to me.
Being that we have so much to choose from under the sun, and so many different types of throwers in the community. I’m really interested in people’s viewpoints on what they find important to them when throwing. Especially when it’s an opinion that’s 180 from my own, I just wanna see the throw critiqued or judged from another perspective.
I agree, compare/contrast is the best. Personally I don’t like reviews because they’re esoteric without a comparison. “This throw is heavy.” … heavy compared to what… etc… I’m with ya, hope to see more of those reviews from you. It’s fun to read.