# Yo-yo vs return top .CA
**URL:** https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602
**Category:** General Yo-Yo
**Created:** [December 28, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602 "2014-12-28T06:10:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@GarrettMfnMoody](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GarrettMfnMoody)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/1 "2014-12-28T06:10:27Z")
Now if your not aware as to why Canadian companies use return top instead of yoyo it is pretty simple, a Canadian company has a patent on the word yoyo.
Now here is my question.
Duncan tried to trademark the word yoyo back in the day and courts ruled it was a generic phrase and could not be patented. So has anyone tried to get this trademark/patent lifted by courts in Canada? Or does no one really care enough to fight it in court?
I just have a lot of curiosity on the topic, can any of my Canadian friends help me out on this? Ed? Lol
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### Author:  [@mrciurleo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/mrciurleo)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/2 "2014-12-28T06:13:36Z")
I was actually wondering the same thing. At this point, return top is an iconic part of Canadian manufacturers names. For example, Caribou Lodge. I honestly think they just don’t mind that much.
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### Author:  [@jhb8426](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/jhb8426)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/3 "2014-12-28T06:23:25Z")
I think nobody really cares, and unless we have some Canadian legal experts here, there’s not much point in discussing it.
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### Author:  [@GarrettMfnMoody](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GarrettMfnMoody)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/4 "2014-12-28T06:27:12Z")
> [@jhb8426](#):
>
> I think nobody really cares, and unless we have some Canadian legal experts here, there’s not much point in discussing it.
Lol, I wasn’t trying to have a big legal debate on the subject. I’ve just been reading up on my yoyo history and I couldn’t really find much info on the topic. Curiosity more than anything.
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### Author:  [@jhb8426](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/jhb8426)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/5 "2014-12-28T06:28:09Z")
These types of discussion never end well.
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### Author:  [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/6 "2014-12-28T07:06:36Z")
Nobody cares to litigate. And if I’m not mistaken, the more years that go by, the harder it will be.
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### Author:  [@kyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/kyo)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 7:39am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/7 "2014-12-28T07:39:53Z")
as with anything in business… cost vs. reward.
It comes down to if it’s worth the cost to fight it in court… if you win, will it actually matter? would calling it a yoyo improve business? seems unlikely, so nobody is going to bother fighting it.
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### Author:  [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/8 "2014-12-28T07:46:24Z")
> [@GarrettMfnMoody](#):
>
> can any of my Canadian friends help me out on this? Ed? Lol
I don’t think Ed Haponik is Canadian. 🙂
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### Author:  [@GarrettMfnMoody](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GarrettMfnMoody)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/9 "2014-12-28T08:03:43Z")
> [@vegabomb](#):
>
> I don’t think Ed Haponik is Canadian. 🙂
I just meant because he had worked with SPYY for years so I imagine he would know a little something on the topic.
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### Author:  [@GoCrazyForYoyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GoCrazyForYoyo)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/10 "2014-12-28T18:13:07Z")
> [@mrciurleo](#):
>
> At this point, return top is an iconic part of Canadian manufacturers names. For example, Caribou Lodge.
CLYW stands for Caribou Lodge Yoyo Works. Return top isn’t found in the company name.
I haven’t heard of any lawsuits brought against them.
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### Author:  [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/11 "2014-12-28T18:20:03Z")
> [@GoCrazyForYoyo](#):
>
> CLYW stands for Caribou Lodge Yoyo Works. Return top isn’t found in the company name.
>
> I haven’t heard of any lawsuits brought against them.
My understanding is that the company name is CLYW, straight up and that’s what they operate under. You will notice that none of their literature or marketing materials spells out what the acronym is. I believe they were served by Papa’s Toys (I think that’s what they’re called) and rather than fuss with it, just changed their name to CLYW rather than Caribou Lodge Yoyo Works. :wink: Everyone in the community knows what it stands for, so there’s no benefit to fighting to have the word “yoyo” in their official name.
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### Author:  [@GoCrazyForYoyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GoCrazyForYoyo)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/12 "2014-12-28T18:29:06Z")
I see. It all makes sense.
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### Author:  [@nolangherity](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/nolangherity)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/13 "2014-12-28T19:01:33Z")
“For a long time Duncan had the word “yo-yo” as a trademark which led to their slogan “If it’s not a Duncan, it’s not a yo-yo”. In 1962 Duncan sued Royal and Dell over the use of the word yo-yo. The latter company stopped the production of their yo-yos, and a 3 year court battle between Duncan and Royal started regarding the trademarked word. The Supreme Court put the word “yo-yo” in the public domain, stating that the well-known Duncan slogan defined the name of the toy as a “yo-yo”. This landmark decision is is still referenced in copyright court cases today. This long, costly court battle led to Duncan filing bankruptcy a led to the buy-out by Flambeau.”
source: [Duncan | YoYo Wiki | Fandom](http://www.yoyowiki.org/wiki/Duncan)
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### Author:  [@MikeEff](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MikeEff)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/14 "2014-12-28T21:10:56Z")
^^^
I’m not sure what we’re shooting for here, but if by “Supreme Court” you mean the US Supreme Court, then I do not believe this decision would apply internationally. Just here in the states.
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### Author:  [@GarrettMfnMoody](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GarrettMfnMoody)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/15 "2014-12-28T21:15:43Z")
Last night I found a list of very generic terms that’s were or still are under trademark. You can find yoyo shortly down the list and what it says did not answer any questions but instead provoked more.
(Improperly issued)
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### Author:  [@Eli\_Flops](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Eli_Flops)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/16 "2014-12-28T21:19:49Z")
ignore this. question answered while i was typing it.
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### Author:  [@TheGrelots](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheGrelots)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/17 "2014-12-28T21:23:43Z")
> [@MikeEff](#):
>
> ^^^
> I’m not sure what we’re shooting for here, but if by “Supreme Court” you mean the US Supreme Court, then I do not believe this decision would apply internationally. Just here in the states.
patent and copyright system of the us apply in canada also
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### Author:  [@MikeEff](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MikeEff)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/18 "2014-12-28T21:34:45Z")
> [@TheGrelots](#):
>
> patent and copyright system of the us apply in canada also
This webpage seems to disagree with that statement. It’s from 2013, so maybe something has changed? I’m nowhere near a patent lawyer, but read the first line of the paragraph.
> **[Protecting intellectual property rights (IPR) overseas](https://www.uspto.gov/ip-policy/ipr-toolkits)**
>
> Since the rights granted by a U.S.
“Since the rights granted by a U.S. patent extend only throughout the territory of the United States and have no effect in a foreign country, an inventor who wishes patent protection in other countries must apply for a patent in each of the other countries or in regional patent offices.”
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### Author:  [@GarrettMfnMoody](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GarrettMfnMoody)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/19 "2014-12-28T21:50:09Z")
> [@MikeEff](#):
>
> This webpage seems to disagree with that statement. It’s from 2013, so maybe something has changed? I’m nowhere near a patent lawyer, but read the first line of the paragraph.
> [Protecting intellectual property rights (IPR) overseas | USPTO](http://www.uspto.gov/ip/iprtoolkits.jsp)
>
> “Since the rights granted by a U.S. patent extend only throughout the territory of the United States and have no effect in a foreign country, an inventor who wishes patent protection in other countries must apply for a patent in each of the other countries or in regional patent offices.”
I didn’t think that was true but didn’t have time to back up my suspicious through Google search lol. So thank you
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### Author:  [@TheGrelots](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheGrelots)
#### Post date: [December 29, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/yo-yo-vs-return-top-ca/71602/20 "2014-12-29T01:01:11Z")
Oh sorry, i’m sure that somewhere i saw something that tell its true, clyw bimetal ?
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