# Why is "H" shape relatively uncommon today? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Yo-Yo\ **Created:** [May 15, 2019, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332 "2019-05-15T02:16:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MarkD](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/markd/32/40845_2.png) [@MarkD](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MarkD)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/101 "2019-05-15T22:56:47Z")
> [@codinghorror](#): > > This is better, but Chronos, not really, it doesn’t cut in strongly enough from the response well. > > ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/8/1/e/81e92d74e13ee9efd06ffb5798e7ef5c402d3df9.jpeg) > > It’s interesting to me how you can kinda mathematically define O, V, and W… but H is much more open to interpretation. You and I are looking at different parts of the profile. I’ve highlighted the step down from the rim in green that I look at when judging how H something is. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/a/c/d/acdf9381de1e11499fbb5057e29ec020bef98427.jpeg) That’s right. I’m an H Judge. Bell yoyos are a newer categorization that defies the previous taxonomy. ---
**Author:** ![Drakkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/drakkar/32/230080_2.png) [@Drakkar](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Drakkar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/102 "2019-05-16T00:15:59Z")
Yup, that seems to be the general reasoning for classifying yo-yos as “H-shaped.” Take these two, for instance: ![OverdriveDraupnir-Green-2_grande](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/0/6/7/067d117087edfee9fe5e2b68928092371fd4c183.jpeg) ![luftverk-fulvia](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/d/a/d/dad90433ba292ba8914d634e77b8bc82c8833b90.jpeg) The Overdrive is classified as a “V,” while the Fulvia as an “H.” Also, I have to say, you guys have overanalyzed the heck out of this, but I enjoyed the discussion a tremendous amount. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/103 "2019-05-16T00:19:17Z")
> [@Drakkar](#): > > have overanalyze the heck out of this ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/b/7/2/b7288c930125dfe3e92996f66f13958e40ee0707.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Drakkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/drakkar/32/230080_2.png) [@Drakkar](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Drakkar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/104 "2019-05-16T00:20:21Z")
Too soon. :wink: ---
**Author:** ![TurdFerguson69](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/turdferguson69/32/45638_2.png) [@TurdFerguson69](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TurdFerguson69)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/105 "2019-05-16T01:47:09Z")
I secretly feel coding did all this to create more discussion on the forum. The hard stance creates a lot of discussion. A normal “yo what’s an H shape to you?” Would get like 15 comments. ---
**Author:** ![beezy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/beezy/32/161690_2.png) [@beezy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beezy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 8:16am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/106 "2019-05-16T08:16:46Z")
> [@codinghorror](#): > > The _steepness of the angle from the response well_ is what primarily determines an H From the response well to where, the catch zone? This is a bit confusing. The H shape is named after a capital letter with a visually defining characteristic of a steep linear drop between its outer edge and the inner well. In yoyos, that would be a steep linear drop between rim and catch zone. H-Spin Envy is the most extreme example of that. The YYF Genesis was the reference H-shape for many moons, and it was not defined by its catch zone by itself (so… not defined by response well to catch zone), but by the drop between the rim and the catch zone. I see too many curves in the iYoyo stuff - not a classic H to me. Flatness of rims and steep drop to catch zone was always a classically defining characteristic of H shape yoyos. ---
**Author:** ![beezy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/beezy/32/161690_2.png) [@beezy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beezy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/107 "2019-05-16T08:18:18Z")
It goes back to the letter itself, and I don’t see any curves whatsoever in the letter H. ---
**Author:** ![RyoCanCan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/ryocancan/32/163437_2.png) [@RyoCanCan](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/RyoCanCan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 8:30am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/108 "2019-05-16T08:30:51Z")
Sure you do )-( THAT is an H …no wait ---
**Author:** ![yyfben2.deactivated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ccd318/32.png) [@yyfben2.deactivated](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yyfben2.deactivated)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/109 "2019-05-16T13:26:29Z")
That was fun. H-Spin created H shape as a name with Envy. G5 was already developed and dropped before it. They were both labeled H shape despite being very different. The vertical on the step of G5 was the common element. When 888 was released it had the token step for styling and people tried to label it H oddly. The vertical, rather than the horizontal appeared to me as the common element in naming as a H shape. ---
**Author:** ![TheThrowingGnome](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/thethrowinggnome/32/14231_2.png) [@TheThrowingGnome](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheThrowingGnome)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/110 "2019-05-16T13:33:32Z")
He did get over 100 reply’s in 24 hrs debating what the letter H looks like! ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/111 "2019-05-16T22:07:07Z")
> [@beezy](#): > > It goes back to the letter itself, and I don’t see any curves whatsoever in the letter H. Does it though? Is this the letter H? ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/5/2/c/52c05a6fa8cf7d30f0a631f7b7ae5bd1de53d199.png) Or is _this_ the letter H? ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/0/6/d/06d0ae6b33f04a7c3cceb3b2efff6f9df80a19c1.png) The key characteristic of the second form is the low angle from the central pivot in the middle (on a yo-yo, the axle and bearing) to the rim. The actual rims could be curved, angular, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![SimplyMike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SimplyMike](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SimplyMike)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/112 "2019-05-17T03:28:54Z")
A really good H yoyo that I just received is The Onomatopoeia. I’ve played it every day since I got it. Real Dope ---
**Author:** ![pep65](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/pep65/32/54510_2.png) [@pep65](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/pep65)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/113 "2019-05-17T15:30:59Z")
defo bottom one. did i pass ? ---
**Author:** ![noodles](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/noodles/32/36467_2.png) [@noodles](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/noodles)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/114 "2019-05-18T22:33:25Z")
h for horizon ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/2/0/c/20cf233bcac5ec0240b57e25d6bf29403524ee5d.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![SpyseaRice](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/spysearice/32/82121_2.png) [@SpyseaRice](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SpyseaRice)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/115 "2019-05-18T22:36:14Z")
Isn’t the OD Par Avion also a H shape? ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/2/e/b/2ebf2060f9b91f564781ec96b67477d7a734a799.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/116 "2019-05-18T22:49:33Z")
Horizon is a V, Avion is a W. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/8/b/a/8ba69503c00c144ca99d4db2a4300da47231ae92.jpeg) In theory you could make those “rim H” if you did this bump, as you see on the left. But I say they aren’t H unless they have a steep angle from response to cup, as you see on the right. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/2/4/f/24f95ef33ff1b2b8fa3e9aa26a347025b53e1496.png) ---
**Author:** ![beeebon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/beeebon/32/30672_2.png) [@beeebon](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beeebon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/117 "2019-05-19T10:09:06Z")
I have been playing with my OD Vanguard this morning which is a lovely H shaped yoyo. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/118 "2019-05-19T10:29:15Z")
It occurs to me this OhYesYo Hearse which @bobafret kindly hooked me up with, is an H. Get it? **H** earse? ![IMG_8099](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/b/0/2/b02713f01a205fb841aa587b707bed39c1cc1f52.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![beezy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/beezy/32/161690_2.png) [@beezy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beezy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/119 "2019-05-19T20:38:10Z")
I like the diagram. Rim H is the classic H I’m familiar with. Response H is something newly defined, no? Thus it’s confusing. Perhaps it’s better to give it a different name. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332/120 "2019-05-19T21:38:35Z")
Not really, no, both definitions have been in play since the early days, e.g. at least since 2007 as @yyfben2.deactivated indicated. > **[HSpin Envy](https://yoyo.fandom.com/wiki/HSpin_Envy)** > > The Envy is a machined aluminum yo-yo released by HSpin in 2007. The next major release following the Pyro, the Envy continued to push the envelope of yo-yo design. Though it was not regarded as well suited for competitive play, it is notable for... “It has little bumps on the rim” is by far the least _useful_ definition of H in terms of capturing play differences derived from the shape, though. [Previous page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/why-is-h-shape-relatively-uncommon-today/302332.md?page=7)