# ToTheFlames: Dr. Filthy returns
**URL:** https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262
**Category:** Traders Feedback
**Created:** [December 16, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262 "2024-12-16T01:50:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@tylerpan](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/tylerpan)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/41 "2024-12-16T18:27:37Z")
Second this, some friend of mine not in yoyo but other hobby got false claim on paypal for “not delivering product” because Paypal does not even check/verify address and the buyer just claim they have not received item, this rarely happen but pretty occasionally on high value item (designer stuff, jewelry, etc). I almost fell into one in selling luxury goods couple years back but got some warnings.
G&S sure is safe for buyer but sometimes they do not even listen to seller’s honesty.
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### Author:  [@MattC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MattC)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/42 "2024-12-16T18:28:25Z")
You have done nothing wrong except keep it to yourself for too long my friend. You seem like a really nice guy. We should be friends.
Don’t let your wife make you feel embarrassed in any way. Its a item of value that was promised to you and you got boned.
At this point hopefully we can recover your money and hopefully enough of these post will slow people down eventually.
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### Author:  [@fatguysnacks247](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/fatguysnacks247)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/43 "2024-12-16T18:32:48Z")
precisely. and in the yoyo hobby it’s not out of the norm to ship to an address that differs from the paypal address… especially when shipping internationally, or using a proxy.
there is not a perfect answer to the problem.
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### Author:  [@tylerpan](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/tylerpan)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/44 "2024-12-16T18:50:47Z")
Agree, there is always risk regardless of your position.
Tbh, the yoyo BST-s are already better & more friendly than many others BST I’ve encountered. Actually, the number of flaker higher than scam, to me is still a good thing cuz it cause 0 harm. Otherwise, thing’s been on great side.
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### Author:  [@SlowThrow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SlowThrow)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/45 "2024-12-16T18:54:54Z")
I have had many great transactions over all, that is why I had kept quiet for several weeks. I will just be more careful in the future
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### Author:  [@SlowThrow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SlowThrow)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/46 "2024-12-16T18:56:21Z")
I guess he just really needs the money and can’t earn enough the honest way? Maybe he’s just got some issues that I shouldn’t speculate about?
It’s hard out there for everyone, some more than others. Just don’t use others to better your own life. Do unto to others as you’d have them do to you or however it goes
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### Author:  [@tylerpan](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/tylerpan)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/47 "2024-12-16T18:57:04Z")
Definitely check refs for sure, it will 100% helps, also double, triple check across many platform.
For now, best thing you can do is gather people that has been scammed, get the physical address, full name and call their nearby county police to make report. I am not sure how it works but I just DM you name of a person that can help you since he’s done it before.
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### Author:  [@kawaii.kaede](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/kawaii.kaede)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/48 "2024-12-16T19:03:30Z")
dddd
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### Author:  [@SlowThrow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SlowThrow)
#### Post date: [December 16, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/50 "2024-12-16T19:36:11Z")
Oh I take responsibility for not doing my job as a buyer, I was really just stoked to be buying some sick yo-yos lol
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### Author:  [@megachicken289](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/megachicken289)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/56 "2024-12-17T00:55:53Z")
Been thinking about this, I think the fastest, quickest, easiest thing to do is just make the feedback page more readily available, like if a buyer or seller has bought/sold enough to have a feedback page, it should be linked somewhere readily available, possibly the pop over when you click the username.
I imagine it would be pretty easy since there’s already a format that most people follow (usually “{username} Feedback” and it would be pretty easy to get new one’s setup. In the longer short term, might be nice to have a button with a prefilled template if the seller doesn’t yet have a feedback page.
I’m not sure who to ping for this or if these ideas are worth anything, but making it easier for buyers to make better decisions is typically good.
Fwiw, I’d prefer to leave the BST as a more or less free market, ie not automatically restrict or have heavy enforcement of rules, but rather allowing buyers be become more well informed
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### Author:  [@SlowThrow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SlowThrow)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/57 "2024-12-17T02:37:12Z")
I do agree, my initial call to demand g&s was reactionary, the BST is a great place and should not have some draconian ruleset placed upon it because some guy duped another guy who wasn’t careful enough. The community here by and large is really the best group of people I have got to talking to on the internet. This is my only social media aside from YouTube videos.
A pinned list of feedback threads would be a good way to increase rep visibility of know good traders.
I still haven’t started my own personal seller/ trader feedback thread because idk if I’m supposed to or wait for one to appear organically? I suppose I should just start one tho lol.
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### Author:  [@megachicken289](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/megachicken289)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2024, 3:13am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/58 "2024-12-17T03:13:48Z")
Buyer beware is a thing for a reason. That’s fair to have a harsh reaction, I’d be worried if you didn’t. I’d be PO’d to all heck as well. That said, YYE cannot enforce G&S unless they specifically made a screen just for BST transactions, which requires engineering and also increases liability on YYE’s part. PCI certification is a headache and a half to say the least (personally, I’ve only heard stories, and would love to hear more; Even DMs or a separate post for InfoSec, but I digress)
Assuming they did do that, then they would have to account for all other forms of potential payment and then would have to decided whether or not to support it. But what happens if a seller can’t or won’t use any of the acceptable forms? Either they just won’t sell here or we’ll be right back where we started, going through Paypal directly.
For sure, this forum was one of the most unexpected things to happen to me in the last two years in terms of social media.
I’ve seen people start their own and others starting it for them. If anything if you’re a big seller, and don’t already have one, if anything create one and link it in your selling page. Not only would it help build rep, but I imagine it would be a form of marketing (Note: I’m not a seller, so I speak strictly as a buyer)
All in all, I can appreciate that you had a bad experience and there’s definitely a few people who share a similar experience. But we are a long way from needing to enforce significant, stringent policies on a free market. But that doesn’t mean we can’t help make tools to increase awareness in not only scams but also scammers. Some methods might even invite people to buy/trade more with increased comfort.
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### Author:  [@Snoopy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Snoopy)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/68 "2024-12-17T23:48:59Z")
_~Ahem~_
> [@Buy / Sell / Trade Category - Official Rules](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/buy-sell-trade-category-official-rules/19/1):
>
> 1. If paying money versus trading YoYoExpert highly recommends using **PayPal ‘Goods & Services’** ’ as a payment option. If seller requests ‘Friends & Family’ payment be aware there is no protection from PayPal or the forum if the trade should go bad. A payment sent via ‘Goods & Services’ means PayPal will support you when something is lost or not received as expected. If seller feels it necessary they should include the PayPal ‘fees’ as part of purchase price. Paying using ‘Friends & Family’ is at your own risk.
This rule, of course, simply _existing_ is **not** going to prevent scams–_but,_ YoYoExpert has done all that it _needs_ to do.
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### Author:  [@SlowThrow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SlowThrow)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/69 "2024-12-18T00:22:10Z")
That is correct. I didn’t follow that guide line and got burnt
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### Author:  [@Isaac](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Isaac)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2024, 12:27am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/70 "2024-12-18T00:27:29Z")
> [@megachicken289](#):
>
> Been thinking about this, I think the fastest, quickest, easiest thing to do is just make the feedback page more readily available, like if a buyer or seller has bought/sold enough to have a feedback page, it should be linked somewhere readily available, possibly the pop over when you click the username.
Good news, you can do this today. Users can set a featured topic on their profile so all you have to do is link it yourself:
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### Author:  [@Isaac](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Isaac)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2024, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/71 "2024-12-18T00:29:48Z")
> [@SlowThrow](#):
>
> A pinned list of feedback threads would be a good way to increase rep visibility of know good traders
That’s unnecessary, you can just search the #Traders Feedback topic thread titles for their username, ie plug this in the search bar: `#buy-sell-trade:traders-feedback in:title `
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### Author:  [@SlowThrow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SlowThrow)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2024, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/72 "2024-12-18T00:31:05Z")
I’ve spent a bit of time familiarizing myself with that page after all this shook out. Knowledge is power, as they say. I had a few reactionary responses that just with a day of looking closer at what was available to me, I could have likely prevented it all together.
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### Author:  [@megachicken289](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/megachicken289)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/73 "2024-12-18T00:35:05Z")
This is exactly what I was thinking. Admittedly, I was thinking there would be a specific line/link just for feedback, maybe with some stats, but this is, exactly what I was talking about.
But further, it would be nice if it was standard, like anyone can just _expect_ to see a feedback link and if not, see a link that says like “Start a feedback thread” or something.
But regardless, yes, this is perfect. With a picture even!
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### Author:  [@Isaac](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Isaac)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2024, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/74 "2024-12-18T00:45:43Z")
Back in the day (before ~2018) when this forum (and YoYoNation) still ran on SMF there was a trade feedback plug-in loaded that was pretty useful. There used to be (and maybe still is but I’m not seeing it on mobile) a way to view that old data so it seems the foundation is there for a Discourse plugin to be written. It’s open source so “all” it would take is a motivated individual with enough free time and knowledge of Ruby/Rails.
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### Author:  [@jhb8426](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/jhb8426)
#### Post date: [December 18, 2024, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/totheflames-dr-filthy-returns/415262/76 "2024-12-18T02:10:22Z")
A discoursew plugin was considered but the cost precluded it. What we have is it.
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