# The evolution of the yoyo shape
**URL:** https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386
**Category:** General Yo-Yo
**Created:** [August 27, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386 "2018-08-27T18:24:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@8Bryan11](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/8Bryan11)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/1 "2018-08-27T18:24:51Z")
From watching a lot of old yo-yo videos on YouTube, it has somewhat come to my attention that yo-yos have changed their shape throughout the years. As in being rounded and more O shaped back in the late 2000s to now being more angular based. Now, the question that I have been meaning to ask is, when did this change in shape occur and why did manufacturers start changing these shapes?
P.S: I am very new thrower, only starting back in 2017 so I might be making a wrong assumption or two. Please have this in mind as I never intend to offend people by my naïve-ness.
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### Author:  [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/2 "2018-08-27T19:40:56Z")
I think a better question is how has yoyo design evolved rather than just shape, so I’ll cover that.
Responsive yoyos were common place in the 90s, people started experimenting with unresponsive and binding around this time but nobody was really doing full unresponsive play. The 90s saw a shift from very narrow to slightly more wider yoyos (still pretty narrow by today’s standards though). Early 2000s players started experimenting more with semi-responsive and unresponsive play but it wasn’t really the norm until Johnnie Delvalle’s iconic 2003 Worlds performance. After that, more people started to switch to unresponsive play and the Hitman that was used became a huge hit.
The few years following that, you could see bigger and wider yoyos became a little more common, walls became a little lower, and silicone/response pads started becoming more common. Undersized, mid-high walled, and narrow yoyos were still being released very frequently around this time though so the general consensus hadn’t completely switched to “bigger and wider is better” quite yet.
In the late 2000s, a few companies started to experiment with 7075 aluminum, which was stronger than the commonly used 6061 aluminum. Bigger, wider, lower walls became more and more relevant but a complete shift hadn’t happened quite yet. Silicone/response pads were pretty much used and seen as the superior response by everyone by this point.
In the early 2010s, companies started to experiment with bimetals as we know them today. Then, in 2013, we pretty much hit the “peak” of yoyo design with the Draupnir. Around that same time, 2013-2014, was when undersized and narrow really became seen as obsolete and fewer and fewer companies were making them, especially with a competitive mindset. Since 2014, yoyo design hasn’t exactly “advanced” but 7075/68, titanium, and bimetals started to be much more commonplace and yoyos have just gradually gotten better and cheaper overall to the point where almost everything you buy now is a good yoyo. Something that couldn’t really be said in the 2000s or even early 2010s.
I think each of these time periods had a yoyo that changed the game as we knew it. First it was the Duncan Freehand in like 2000, which was seen as very wide when it was first released. Then it was the Hitman in 2003, it changed how we view unresponsive play. Next was the Peak, 2006, it was bigger, wider, and walls were a little lower. In 2009, the Sleipnir was released. This was basically the final progression in monometal design. Angular shape, full sized, wide, low-walled, 7075. Lastly, was the Draupnir in 2013, basically the pinnacle of bimetal design. Then there’s today. Although there may have been a few yoyos that have been released that are arguably better than the Draupnir, there hasn’t been a yoyo that trumps it by so much that it becomes a game changer like the Hitman or the Sleipnir.
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### Author:  [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/3 "2018-08-27T20:02:04Z")
What a really well thought out response. I think though in your timeline that the 888 probably has a place.
Great job though.
As far as the OP question, I found that the angled shapes really took hold with many of the YYR line. Heath Vizier was a fan of YYR and it can be somewhat seen in the the SkyWalker and TiWalker.
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### Author:  [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/4 "2018-08-27T20:05:40Z")
For sure. Without a doubt I definitely think YYR were the pioneers of modern yoyo design. Since their first release up to the Draupnir, pretty much everything they were spitting out were ahead of their time.
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### Author:  [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/5 "2018-08-27T20:34:43Z")
> [@andy569](#):
>
> Since 2014, yoyo design hasn’t exactly “advanced” but 7075/68, titanium, and bimetals started to be much more commonplace and **yoyos have just gradually gotten better and cheaper overall to the point where almost everything you buy now is a good yoyo.**
I think this fact has blurred the lines between what constitutes an “entry level” metal yoyo and a “mid-range” competitive model. For instance, if someone said they were interested in the Duncan WindRunner at $36, who wouldn’t steer them towards a Shutter for only $9 more instead?
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### Author:  [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/6 "2018-08-27T20:56:50Z")
I see mid range as $60-$100, anything cheaper is entry, anything more is high-end
With that said, as iconic as the Shutter was in really starting the budget metal movement, I think it’s overrated and feel that a lot of yoyos perform better at a similar and cheaper price nowadays.
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### Author:  [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/7 "2018-08-27T20:58:59Z")
I guess it goes without saying, then, that YYE’s categories for the yoyos it sells through its webstore need some recalibration to better reflect current standards.
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### Author:  [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/8 "2018-08-27T22:03:12Z")
With all due respect to anyone else’s opinion I think I trust YYEs determination of skill level to yoyo more than most other people’s. 🙂
André has been doing this a looonnggg time.
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### Author:  [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/9 "2018-08-27T22:06:34Z")
I think it may be less a question of Andre’s ability to accurately assess categories, and maybe more of a question of the category criteria drifting out of date over the years. How often do they update such things on the YYE webstore?
I understand there is a webstore revamp in the works; one wonders if the categorization has been updated as part of that.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/10 "2018-08-27T23:24:28Z")
I kinda disagree with this:
> [@andy569](#):
>
> Then, in 2013, we pretty much hit the “peak” of yoyo design with the Draupnir.
Draupnir is peak _bimetal_, but as far as peak _mainstream monometal design_ there’s no question that it is …
the **2013 Shutter**.
What’s magical about the Shutter in particular is the way it merged all the W/H/O/V shapes
into one platonic ideal:
It’s sorta organic and smooth for comfort, but also kinda H shaped for better spin and that nice fat middle, yet still V shaped for performance, and a bit step-round W shaped … _all at the same time!_ It’s a really solid combination of shapes that merges all the good things about each one. It is the most “modern classic” of any yoyo released in the last 8 years, IMNSHO.
Size is also a factor. 56mm diameter of the Shutter is basically mainstream now, whereas 50mm yo-yos were the norm 8 years ago. Yo-yos prior to 2010 are _undersized_ compared to yo-yos today!
> [@Standout modern yo-yo timeline?](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/standout-modern-yo-yo-timeline/84894):
>
> Does anyone have a year-by-year timeline of modern yo-yos that are standouts? By standouts I mean, as recognized by the yo-yoing community, yo-yos that are unique, innovative, popular, horrible, etc. I’m thinking of mainly just one or two a year (or 3, or 4 :)). Beginning arbitrarily at 1976 when the Duracraft ProYo was introduced by Donald Duncan Jr., here is a start from my collection database (laughably incomplete, please fill in/correct as appropriate; also dates tend to be introduction …
Anyway, the primary narrative of yo-yos in 2010-2015 isn’t a YoyoRecreation story, except on the bimetal front. It’s a YYF story, and specifically a Shutter story…
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### Author:  [@NoT\_ATHROWER](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NoT_ATHROWER)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/11 "2018-08-27T23:44:41Z")
I wonder when companies started experimenting with titanium.
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### Author:  [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/12 "2018-08-27T23:51:49Z")
Coding, you always know how to push my buttons man 🤣
I say the Shutter is overrated even for its price, you say its the best yoyo of all time. Geez
I’m not even gonna debate on that, I actually feel like you’re trolling me at this point lmao
But I will touch on the YYR bit. YYR has never been a more popular company than YYF, YYJ or even some other companies. Two reasons. They’re expensive, they aren’t American. I will agree that none of the YYR models outside of the Sleipnir and Draupnir really got as much recognition as a lot of other stuff that was pumped out around that time. I will also agree that none of the YYR stuff outside of those two are the most “unique” or “popular” yoyos of their time, as shown in that timeline. However, that’s not really what I was saying.
I said pretty much everything YYR pumped out up to the Draupnir were ahead of their time and that’s because very few yoyos could compete with any of the YYR stuff at a competitive standpoint. Overdrive, Mr. Butcher, Triplet, Gleipnir. What yoyos pre 2015 performed at a higher level than any of those? Not many imo, especially on the American side. Even their smaller stuff like the Attune, Acrophobia, and Blink were forces to be reckoned with, even when compared to the best American yoyos of the time such as the Chief and Summit. The Messiah and Six were considered the best undersized yoyos for the longest time too.
Not many people on the US side had the pleasure of trying or owning these yoyos, especially compared to YYF/YYJ/OD/CLYW/etc. But everyone that did understood that YYR was just on another level in terms of performance. YYF was the king of mainstream. But YYR were the ones that were really making the yoyos to beat. YYR had an aura that said “we’re making the best yoyos, anything we pump out are pure competition monsters.” That was what they were going for too.
Just my opinion. Very strong opinion though :wink:
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/13 "2018-08-27T23:57:09Z")
> [@andy569](#):
>
> I say the Shutter is overrated even for its price, you say its the best yoyo of all time. Geez
I did not say _best_, I said most iconic and most representative of _modern yo-yo design_. And I believe this is deeply true of the 2013 Shutter. It’s far from my favorite yo-yo but it’s the perfect example of what yo-yos became in 2015 and beyond!
Shutter merges all the shapes, so it is not opinionated about shape and thus a valid criticism of the Shutter is that it is too generic because it is trying to be all things to all people. This sorta reminds me of people loudly complaining about bands that are “too popular” though. Sometimes things are popular because … y’know, people like them :wink: .
YYR is too expensive and too isolated to be affecting many people. There is no question that they nailed the platonic ideal of a _bimetal yoyo_ in the Draupnir though… I think everyone can agree with that. Plus it’s expected for bimetal to be expensive, or at least it used to be!
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### Author:  [@smileypants707](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/smileypants707)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/14 "2018-08-28T00:33:24Z")
@andy569
> I actually feel like you’re trolling me at this point lmao
I’m the yoyo Sheriff around these parts, you challenging Coding’s authority? He _wrote_ the yoyo law, and I’m just here strictly enforcing it. I better not find out you been using nylon strings, or running them bearings dry boy! You hear me?! And as far as you’re concerned, Shutter or GET OUT!
Lol, /s
Love you Code
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### Author:  [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/15 "2018-08-28T00:35:37Z")
This is like watching your parents fight…😳
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/16 "2018-08-28T01:36:25Z")
I’m sorry you guys hate Gentry Stein! He’s gonna be so sad when he finds out! 😭
But seriously, the Shutter is really quite innovative in terms of its shape IMO, so based on the title of this topic… it’s hugely significant.
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### Author:  [@smileypants707](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/smileypants707)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/17 "2018-08-28T01:48:43Z")
I can assure you I do not hate Gentry. He blows me out of the water as far as talent and marketing goes. I’ve just never felt inclined to buy a shutter. Bought a replay Pro once, that thing was pretty decent for only costing 20 bucks. I considered buying one of those shutters that didn’t have any laser engraving on it, but I never actually pulled the trigger
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### Author:  [@imthegreenbean](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/imthegreenbean)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/18 "2018-08-28T02:10:28Z")
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> Draupnir is peak _bimetal_ , but as far as peak _mainstream monometal design_ there’s no question that it is …
>
> 
>
> the **2013 Shutter**.
Naaaaaah bro it’s all about that
Pico Creator x DreamYo Nautilus… wait nobody knows what that is? Dang… some day cheap off-brand Chinese yoyos will rule the world…
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### Author:  [@anon5341354](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon5341354)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2018, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/19 "2018-08-28T05:56:30Z")
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> What’s magical about the Shutter in particular is the way it merged all the W/H/O/V shapes
From what I can see, there’s zero ‘O’ shape in the Shutter.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-evolution-of-the-yoyo-shape/292386/20 "2018-08-28T06:20:50Z")
Do you see any “O” shape in this… or this?
 
:thinking:
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