# Speed and Flow **URL:** \ **Category:** General Yo-Yo\ **Created:** [August 19, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662 "2012-08-19T22:33:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PlasticWhip](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/plasticwhip/32/896_2.png) [@PlasticWhip](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/PlasticWhip)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/21 "2012-08-20T21:34:40Z")
> [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > Flow = lack of speed. > > This thread = Slow players; rationalizing their inability to play fast. > > “Yeah, I can’t do half the tricks some guys can do in 3 minutes - but hey it FLOWS man…” > > Yeah right. If these “flow” players could play fast; they would in order to win contests. They don’t; therefore, they can’t. > > QED. Not everyone cares about speed. Flow is a very real thing, and isn’t just the lack of speed. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt1yoyo1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/sgt1yoyo1/32/242554_2.png) [@Sgt1yoyo1](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Sgt1yoyo1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/22 "2012-08-20T21:40:43Z")
Speed is fun and has its time and place but flow is soooo much cooler to watch and do! ---
**Author:** ![AFairhurst](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/afairhurst/32/793_2.png) [@AFairhurst](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AFairhurst)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/23 "2012-08-20T21:42:16Z")
Flow for days! I try to have a bit of flow myself. And I’m partially blaming it on a lack of speed. ---
**Author:** ![YoyoGeezer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyogeezer/32/755_2.png) [@YoyoGeezer](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoyoGeezer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/24 "2012-08-20T21:51:21Z")
> [@WildCat23](#): > > > [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > > > Flow = lack of speed. > > > > This thread = Slow players; rationalizing their inability to play fast. > > > > “Yeah, I can’t do half the tricks some guys can do in 3 minutes - but hey it FLOWS man…” > > > > Yeah right. If these “flow” players could play fast; they would in order to win contests. They don’t; therefore, they can’t. > > > > QED. > > Not everyone cares about speed. Flow is a very real thing, and isn’t just the lack of speed. Then there should be an event called “Yoyo Dancing”. Your point is much like aspiring artists who claim that any artist that is actually successful has necessarily sold out to the “corporate” or “commercial” art market. Until there is a contest that rewards flowing play (whatever that is…); measuring it against a style where contests do reward actual performance is meaningless. One style results in championships, sponsorship and monetary rewards. The other just makes you feel better that you are not successfully measuring yourself against others. By all means; flow away… ---
**Author:** ![PlasticWhip](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/plasticwhip/32/896_2.png) [@PlasticWhip](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/PlasticWhip)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/25 "2012-08-20T22:02:55Z")
> [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > > [@WildCat23](#): > > > > > [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > > > > > Flow = lack of speed. > > > > > > This thread = Slow players; rationalizing their inability to play fast. > > > > > > “Yeah, I can’t do half the tricks some guys can do in 3 minutes - but hey it FLOWS man…” > > > > > > Yeah right. If these “flow” players could play fast; they would in order to win contests. They don’t; therefore, they can’t. > > > > > > QED. > > > > Not everyone cares about speed. Flow is a very real thing, and isn’t just the lack of speed. > > Then there should be an event called “Yoyo Dancing”. > > Your point is much like aspiring artists who claim that any artist that is actually successful has necessarily sold out to the “corporate” or “commercial” art market. > > Until there is a contest that rewards flowing play (whatever that is…); measuring it against a style where contests do reward actual performance is meaningless. One style results in championships, sponsorship and monetary rewards. The other just makes you feel better that you are not successfully measuring yourself against others. > > By all means; flow away… And your point is like taking the fastest guitarist and saying they’re the best. Sure they have speed, but do they know how to play anything else? Can they play it with emotion? It’s similar with the yoyo. Sure, they can bust out super high speed tricks, buy can they do it with style? ---
**Author:** ![JeiCheetah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/jeicheetah/32/612192_2.png) [@JeiCheetah](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/JeiCheetah)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/26 "2012-08-20T22:06:32Z")
Speed contains flow within its realm of performance. A fast player is doing a series of elements quickly together that “flows” from one to the other in a quick manner. In essence, the speedy flow player has a great grasp of the flow of the trick to obtain the precision that is sought. They work together, thus I don’t “prefer” one over the other, because it is all one to me. J ---
**Author:** ![Japhle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/japhle/32/79807_2.png) [@Japhle](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Japhle)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/27 "2012-08-20T22:24:56Z")
It’s a bit like listening to metal, then trying to compare it to listening to a mood setting instrumental, try this; listen to, on second thought, perhaps Tundra Desert by Modest Mouse. (edited because I went back and listened to the Children of Bodom song and realized I didn’t enjoy it very much at all.) then listen to On The Nature of Daylight by Max Richter I can enjoy both pieces but they have such a different sound that it isn’t reasonable to compare the two, it will only be whichever you personally prefer. With yoyos the two style mentioned here, Flow and Speedwork, happen to be two completely different things. If you learn some of the speed work tricks they usually are woefully boring if you try to do a flow type of movement through it. For a truly fantastic freestyle it should be matching the music very well, Hiroyuki Suzuki’s worlds freestyle this year was spot on to the music. Kimmitt’s 2011 freestyle was also perfect with his music, and it seems as though if it had been the full 3 minutes there would have been a great chance of him winning. and i leld at yoyogeezer, ---
**Author:** ![masonshoe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/masonshoe/32/50820_2.png) [@masonshoe](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/masonshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/28 "2012-08-20T22:34:34Z")
> [@crammitfrog](#): > > Flow fo sho ---
**Author:** ![aznnboyaZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/aznnboyaz/32/651830_2.png) [@aznnboyaZ](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/aznnboyaZ)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/29 "2012-08-20T23:31:14Z")
Flowy speed? Or speedy flow? Why not haha ---
**Author:** ![H4TE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@H4TE](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/H4TE)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/30 "2012-08-21T00:58:12Z")
> [@SR1](#): > > Ah, let me be more precise: Jensen flow. > > Bam. this ---
**Author:** ![YoyoGeezer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyogeezer/32/755_2.png) [@YoyoGeezer](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoyoGeezer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/31 "2012-08-21T01:28:09Z")
> [@Japhle](#): > > It’s a bit like listening to metal, then trying to compare it to listening to a mood setting instrumental, try this; > > listen to Angels Don’t Kill by Children of Bodom > > then listen to On The Nature of Daylight by Max Richter > > I can enjoy both pieces but they have such a different sound that it isn’t reasonable to compare the two, it will only be whichever you personally prefer. > > With yoyos the two style mentioned here, Flow and Speedwork, happen to be two completely different things. If you learn some of the speed work tricks they usually are woefully boring if you try to do a flow type of movement through it. For a truly fantastic freestyle it should be matching the music very well, Hiroyuki Suzuki’s worlds freestyle this year was spot on to the music. Kimmitt’s 2011 freestyle was also perfect with his music, and it seems as though if it had been the full 3 minutes there would have been a great chance of him winning. > > and i leld at yoyogeezer, Does “leld” mean something new dumb-dumb-speak that I am not aware of? Or is it a typo? If it is LOL - at what? My opinion? If so, careful. I have no problem with disagreeing. But blanket “lol” is hardly respectful or constructive. Use of such arguments willl get personal attacks in return. Judging by your simplistic music analogy, this is literary fight your are not prepared for. ---
**Author:** ![Gnarwhally](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/gnarwhally/32/1178_2.png) [@Gnarwhally](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Gnarwhally)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/32 "2012-08-21T01:52:18Z")
I don’t prefer either over the other. I think that truly great players have both a combination of flow, and speed. Sure, some players might lean greatly in one direction or the other, and all the better to them. But can you honestly say that Jensen couldn’t be faster if he wanted? Or that Hiroyuki’s tricks don’t flow? ---
**Author:** ![Japhle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/japhle/32/79807_2.png) [@Japhle](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Japhle)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/33 "2012-08-21T01:55:55Z")
> [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > derrp herp deederp Note of caution for everyone else: don’t feed the troll. ---
**Author:** ![yoyofoot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyofoot/32/602_2.png) [@yoyofoot](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yoyofoot)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/34 "2012-08-21T01:57:30Z")
You can’t play fast and have it look good and not have it flow too. I don’t consider flow to be a more refined style of yoyoing, as some seem to be saying. ---
**Author:** ![JeiCheetah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/jeicheetah/32/612192_2.png) [@JeiCheetah](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/JeiCheetah)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/35 "2012-08-21T02:05:25Z")
> [@Japhle](#): > > > [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > > > derrp herp deederp > > Note of caution for everyone else: don’t feed the troll. lerlerlerl ---
**Author:** ![d42kn355](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/d42kn355/32/829_2.png) [@d42kn355](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/d42kn355)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/36 "2012-08-21T03:27:56Z")
“Careful” Japhle, The troll might bite back with a literary “personal attack”. Does this make him feel good? Does this give him pride? Words are words dude. Quit trolling with your arrogant ways. You state that a “blanket lol” is neither respectful, nor is it constructive, and then you bash Japhle by stating that his analogy is simplistic, and then go on about him not being “prepared” for a literary fight. How is this respectful or constructive? I know I personally have no issue with you “lashing back” at me, As I am man enough to take it. Unlike you. This is thread is based on opinions. Grow up. Oh, wait, you’re an adult sitting on a board full of children, ranting and raving about personal attacks. He simply found what you stated as funny. NOW, I believe Flow is entirely different than speed play, They both have elements based off of one another in essence, though they look entirely different. A crowd of people who have never thrown before, and have zero knowledge of modern day yoyoing, can be wowed by both, yet in my experience, they find simplistic tricks with a flowing sense more enjoyable because they are able to comprehend it. I mean in all honesty, speed play is nothing but point wh0reing. When someone is by themselves, not on stage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with flowing/slower tricks. I do agree that people who are very into speed play know all of the elements of flow, because they certainly would not be able to convert all of the insanely fast tricks into speed play with out at least practicing them quite a bit slower. ---
**Author:** ![tomyu168](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@tomyu168](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/tomyu168)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/37 "2012-08-21T05:27:45Z")
Guy Wright , Reiki sekyia, Tatsuya fujisaka. First guy doing easy eye catching repeaters . Second doing complicate string trick with Suzuki’s speed, (see his world 2010 , so technics I enjoy it much more than Jensen ) . And the last… Real art, you can’t blink your eyes while watching his performance.( Japan Nation 2012) ---
**Author:** ![anonyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@anonyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anonyo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/38 "2012-08-21T12:57:43Z")
Flow. Using a glow string makes everything look flowing. ---
**Author:** ![aznnboyaZ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/aznnboyaz/32/651830_2.png) [@aznnboyaZ](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/aznnboyaZ)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/39 "2012-08-21T17:45:07Z")
What about people like Christopher Chia? he has flowing elements as well as speed! ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyJ](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/johnnyj/32/94616_2.png) [@JohnnyJ](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/JohnnyJ)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662/40 "2012-08-21T17:49:42Z")
> [@d42kn355](#): > > “Careful” Japhle, The troll might bite back with a literary “personal attack”. > Does this make him feel good? Does this give him pride? > Words are words dude. Quit trolling with your arrogant ways. You state that a “blanket lol” is neither respectful, nor is it constructive, and then you bash Japhle by stating that his analogy is simplistic, and then go on about him not being “prepared” for a literary fight. How is this respectful or constructive? I know I personally have no issue with you “lashing back” at me, As I am man enough to take it. Unlike you. > This is thread is based on opinions. Grow up. Oh, wait, you’re an adult sitting on a board full of children, ranting and raving about personal attacks. He simply found what you stated as funny. > > NOW, I believe Flow is entirely different than speed play, They both have elements based off of one another in essence, though they look entirely different. A crowd of people who have never thrown before, and have zero knowledge of modern day yoyoing, can be wowed by both, yet in my experience, they find simplistic tricks with a flowing sense more enjoyable because they are able to comprehend it. I mean in all honesty, speed play is nothing but point wh0reing. When someone is by themselves, not on stage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with flowing/slower tricks. I do agree that people who are very into speed play know all of the elements of flow, because they certainly would not be able to convert all of the insanely fast tricks into speed play with out at least practicing them quite a bit slower. i defenitly agree with both parts. [Previous page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/speed-and-flow/41662.md?page=3)