# So how about that stock market?
**URL:** https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197
**Category:** Unrelated Discussion
**Created:** [January 30, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197 "2021-01-30T22:44:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@anon14765792](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon14765792)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/42 "2021-07-20T18:27:18Z")
The EU is proposing a law to ban non KYC wallets, anonymity would be gone omg
Wouldn’t that crash the price to no end?
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### Author:  [@TheHelveticaScenario](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheHelveticaScenario)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/43 "2021-07-20T18:37:13Z")
> [@LinksLegionaire](#):
>
> Which is to be expected.
A lot of people seemed to have adopted this opinion. So, what do you think would be **unexpected** at this point?
> [@LinksLegionaire](#):
>
> But I don’t trade crypto, I buy and hold.
At what point in the future do you sell your crypto or do you hold it til your death? I mean it’s $34,000 off the ATH.
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### Author:  [@LinksLegionaire](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/LinksLegionaire)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/44 "2021-07-20T20:42:04Z")
> [@anon14765792](#):
>
> The EU is proposing a law to ban non KYC wallets, anonymity would be gone omg
> Wouldn’t that crash the price to no end?
Depends on the crypto. For something like BTC or ETH that’s already not that anonymous, meh. But for something like Monero, it could be disastrous.
> [@TheHelveticaScenario](#):
>
> > [@LinksLegionaire](#):
> >
> > Which is to be expected.
>
> A lot of people seemed to have adopted this opinion. So, what do you think would be **unexpected** at this point?
To _not_ see extreme volatility. Bitcoin, for example, is deflationary by design; there’s a set number of ‘coins’ available to be mined. There’s estimated to be a little over 18 million BTC floating around, with about 3 million of that lost (forgot password, threw out old hard drives, etc.). There are 21 million possible coins and the last coin isn’t expected to be mined until 2140. At which point I would expect the price to be less volatile, though trending upwards.
Are we seeing a trend here? Is the 2020 spike mimicking the 2018 spike? It’s hard to say. But if you bought Bitcoin prior to 2021, you should still be sitting pretty. But who knows, maybe BTC will crash to zero this year! Though I wouldn’t bet on it.
> [@TheHelveticaScenario](#):
>
> > [@LinksLegionaire](#):
> >
> > But I don’t trade crypto, I buy and hold.
>
> At what point in the future do you sell your crypto or do you hold it til your death? I mean it’s $34,000 off the ATH.
I’m not really sure. I see crypto as a hedge against inflation, and I don’t see that slowing down anytime soon. I’m also not in a position where I need the money, so I treat it like a nest egg - saving it for a rainy day when I’m really hurting. Perhaps in 10 years when I buy a Pagani I’ll sell some crypto 😛
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### Author:  [@TheHelveticaScenario](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheHelveticaScenario)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/45 "2021-07-21T00:20:05Z")
If the price is _expected_ to change rapidly and unpredictably (aka volatility), should it be considered a hedge against _anything_ (let alone inflation) given its intrinsically unstable nature?
From my perspective, most crypto enthusiasts lack any sort of exit strategy. This is not surprising when they don’t understand why it goes up 300% or why it goes down 50% or more.
If you had to give it your best guess, what do you think the absolute highest price for a single bitcoin should be? $100k, $500k, $1 million, more? Then could you explain how you arrived at that particular number.
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### Author:  [@beherenow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beherenow)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/46 "2021-07-21T00:28:20Z")
Last time I bought bitcoin it was $3800 a coin. 2018’ish? Wish I had kept them.
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### Author:  [@TheHelveticaScenario](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheHelveticaScenario)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/47 "2021-07-21T00:45:08Z")
What’s stopping you from buying now?
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### Author:  [@hobby\_master](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/hobby_master)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 3:37am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/48 "2021-07-21T03:37:00Z")
What make a dollar bill worth 1$?
What makes the same piece of paper worth 100$?
If a 1$ is worth 1$, what happens when the amount of dollar bills doubles? Is it still worth 1$? Or does the intrinsic value change while the number still stays the same?
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### Author:  [@anon14765792](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon14765792)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/49 "2021-07-21T05:56:55Z")
> [@hobby\_master](#):
>
> What make a dollar bill worth 1$
Because the american government says so
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### Author:  [@hobby\_master](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/hobby_master)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 6:08am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/50 "2021-07-21T06:08:20Z")
No. Because you Believe its worth that
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### Author:  [@TheHelveticaScenario](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheHelveticaScenario)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 6:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/51 "2021-07-21T06:10:33Z")
The answers to your questions are easily looked up. There are dozens of websites explaining at great depth what money is and how it works both in theory and in practice at both the micro and macro levels. But I’ll play along…
By the way, “worth” is an ambiguous term which I promise is going to cause lots of confusion. It could mean literal face value, the effective “purchasing power”, or simply the price of a good or service. I hope you understand the difference.
**What makes a dollar bill worth 1$?**
In the US, legally speaking, the central bank of the US, called the Federal Reserve manages the US money supply. The U.S. Treasury issues Federal Reserve notes in various denominations of US dollars, the US unit of account.
**What makes the same piece of paper worth $100?**
This literally cannot happen; it’s either $1 or $100, never both.
**If a $1 is worth $1, what happens when the amount of dollar bills doubles?**
Possibly nothing “happens”, but that depends on a ton of external factors. Is it in circulation, what is the population size, what is the demand for dollars, and on and on. But I don’t think you’re looking for any level of nuance, the answer you expect to hear is that the “worth” (I think you mean purchasing power) is perfectly cut in half. But in reality, it’s not. Way more complicated than that.
**Is it still worth $1? Or does the intrinsic value change while the number still stays the same?**
It is still worth $1, good for the payment of $1 of taxes, goods, or services. The intrinsic value does not change since dollars have no intrinsic value – they are pieces of paper. They do have extrinsic value because they are fiat via legal tender laws and government enforcement of those laws.
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### Author:  [@anon14765792](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon14765792)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/52 "2021-07-21T06:14:57Z")
Yes and why do people believe that? Because the strong US government, the us economy and their army is behind it.
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### Author:  [@hobby\_master](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/hobby_master)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/53 "2021-07-21T08:31:03Z")
I do believe this to be a never ending rabbit hole convo. But something everyone should learn more about, how our monetary and banking systems work. Crypto is soomuch bigger than bitcoin and the idea of a digital asset or hedge against inflation
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### Author:  [@anon14765792](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon14765792)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 8:40am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/54 "2021-07-21T08:40:09Z")
What were you trying to achieve with your question on why 1$ is worth 1$? I’m sure you had something to say.
> [@hobby\_master](#):
>
> Crypto is soomuch bigger than bitcoin and the idea of a digital asset or hedge against inflation
What is crypto then
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### Author:  [@LinksLegionaire](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/LinksLegionaire)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/55 "2021-07-21T14:28:07Z")
> [@TheHelveticaScenario](#):
>
> If the price is _expected_ to change rapidly and unpredictably (aka volatility), should it be considered a hedge against _anything_ (let alone inflation) given its intrinsically unstable nature?
Yes because it is deflationary by design. There is a finite amount. Granted it shouldn’t be considered a ‘safe’ or ‘low risk’ hedge. Compared to something like the USD which is inflationary. Fun fact: **40%** of all USD was printed in the past 14 months. Notice how everything has been getting more expensive?
Over time, as long as there’s a demand, the purchasing power of BTC will increase while the purchasing power of the USD will decrease.
As for the absolute highest Bitcoin could hit, I have no idea. The very first sale of BTC was in October of 2009 and the price per coin was about $0.0009. 12 years later and the price is $31,700. Based on this data, the price of BTC in another 12 years should be $1,116,544,444,444 😛
Realistically, I think over 100k is all but guaranteed barring some outside influence (government interference, mostly). I also don’t think $1M would be out of the question, either, though I don’t expect it to hit that price anytime soon.
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### Author:  [@TheHelveticaScenario](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheHelveticaScenario)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/56 "2021-07-21T23:12:51Z")
Are you just selectively pasting talking points from some pro-crypto website because what you’re writing is nonsensical gibberish.
You call Bitcoin deflationary despite the fact that the supply keeps increasing and will do so for 100 years and beyond. And I won’t even touch upon the existing forks and competing cryptos because that would really destroy your thesis.
You’re concerned that 40% of all USD being “printed” in 14 months (completely misleading btw), but **100%** of all crypto has been created in roughly the last decade – also out of nothing 🙈 🙉 🙊 – and that’s just fine and dandy because crypto is what… magic money?!
And again, no offense intended here, but you’re just pulling numbers right out of your butt and providing no explanation as to why. So somewhere between $100k and $1MM for “reasons” but not “anytime soon”, but hey its finite don’t ya know, so $1MM easy. Gotcha. Makes complete sense.
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### Author:  [@hobby\_master](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/hobby_master)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/57 "2021-07-22T03:39:41Z")
Yea bitcoin is not deflationary. But there is and only will be 21 million.
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### Author:  [@TheHelveticaScenario](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TheHelveticaScenario)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2021, 4:54am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/58 "2021-07-22T04:54:13Z")
But don’t forget that one bitcoin (BTC) is really just 100 million satoshis (SAT). The blockchain is denominated only in satoshis, another fact lost on most people.
So, doing some quick math, 21,000,000 bitcoins x 100,000,000 satoshis = **2,100,000,000,000,000**
So the true supply of bitcoin is actually more than 2 _quadrillion_, not 21 million. For comparison, the total _global_ money supply in circulation is a paltry 37 trillion dollars.
Fiat currency has a lot of “printing” left to do if it ever hopes to catch up to bitcoin!
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### Author:  [@anon14765792](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon14765792)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2021, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/59 "2021-07-22T08:34:36Z")
I’m disappointed to see that this convo is all about Bitcoin and “magic internet funny money”. Many people think of it as funny money because that’s what crypto mostly is right now (like bitcoin and dogecoin) but there are also lots of interesting projects with real use cases.
Ethereum for example has smart contracts. Smart contracts are contracts that are programmed.
Chainlink is built on ETH and it aims to bring real world data to Ethereum (that way you can include actions from the real world into your smart contracts, like “if (it rains in Iowa == true) send money to my aunt” (it’s an example i don’t know why anyone would send money to their aunt when it rains in Iowa)).
Kleros is another project that is built into Ethereum Smart Contracts, they offer to solve payment disputes with decentralized and anonymous judges.
These are the only interesting projects that I can think of right now. Those technologies have a use case and they bring value and I hope to see more of it in the future. But like all crypto their price is highly speculative and thus not good investments.
> [@TheHelveticaScenario](#):
>
> So the true supply of bitcoin is actually more than 2 _quadrillion_
I don’t understand why you bring numbers into this. What if Bitcoin was designed to have 12 decimals instead of 8? Then the supply would be 10 thousand times “larger” by your logic. Dollars and Bitcoin are both traded for different prices so what do we gain if we compare the total supplies of both if we don’t account the prices/market cap?
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### Author:  [@anon14765792](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon14765792)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2021, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/60 "2021-07-22T08:42:57Z")
who cares about crypto anyway
Do we have any GOLD&SILVER kings here? Collecting gold and silver coins can be quite a hobby. There are so many different beautiful coins to collect and not only is it a hobby, it is definitely an investment as well.
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### Author:  [@hobby\_master](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/hobby_master)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2021, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/so-how-about-that-stock-market/333197/61 "2021-07-22T12:05:30Z")
Exactly, crypto is so much bigger than bitcoin. It has so much data potential with complete transparency. It works in conjunction with web 3.0
Most crypto isn’t even a form of currency
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