# Sengoku Shinobi in production **URL:** \ **Category:** Manufacturer Official News\ **Created:** [July 13, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548 "2021-07-13T01:27:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nightshadow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/nightshadow/32/1574_2.png) [@nightshadow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/nightshadow)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 3:45am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/41 "2021-08-26T03:45:50Z")
Haha, well if the yo-yoer is good (better than me) they can make a bad YoYo look good. But I personally believe this to be a really good throw. ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/42 "2021-08-26T04:20:18Z")
> [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > While I always support innovative shapes and materials, I found the Samurai a bit of a performance disappointment. > > The whole concept of the ‘M’ shape eludes me. Physics says that the larger the diameter of the ring, the greater the angular momentum. So why make the outer-rim diameter smaller? Additionally; as you mentioned, the ‘M’ shape makes the catch-zone smaller than a traditional V-shape would allow on the same width and diameter. > > So why is the M-shape better? Angular momentum is just one of the many reasons to decide a ring placement. Higher RPM doesn´t guarantee higher stability and other things about performance. The innertia created by a ring placed in different parts changes the performance of a yoyo in different ways. Although the Shinobi is not a samurai, it plays quite different and ineed takes advantage of the ring in the upper area to squeeze angular momentum. But the one on the rim, brings stability and maneuverability. If you have the Samurai, you can compare it with any other yoyo just by letting it sleep at low rpm and see which one starts tilting first. I´m sorry the Samurai dissappointed you. Although, I would like to hear what particular features you think is dissappointing, because dissappointment is quite subjective. It has to do with building expectations. In example: If someone see the Shinobi and because of the shape expects it to play like an upgraded Samurai, he might be dissappointed, because it plays very different, doesn´t feel like the Samurai (i find many features closer to Nobunaga and Masamini than the Samurai). Etc. ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 4:36am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/43 "2021-08-26T04:36:23Z")
> [@nightshadow](#): > > Haha, well if the yo-yoer is good (better than me) they can make a bad YoYo look good. > > But I personally believe this to be a really good throw. I think it is. And moreover, the M shape just started being explored. With enough support, more models can come out and discover ways to make it shine. (Unlike the V shape that has been explored to the exhaustion). And because it is very differently, it is expected to have disadvantages. (like, I can´t thjink a way to make an M shape monometal that won´t end up playing like a V shape with thick rims. Thuis particular shape calls for rings to push the shape beyond a cosmetic change). But I believe the advantages outshine the disadvantages vs the V shape, at the very least is something fresh, and I´m excited because no other shape could put a fight to V shape in the competition department. The catch zone can be increased by increasing the overall widht, but that will create other challenges, like how to keep it not heavy and dispell the idea that if someone doesn´t like wide V shape yoyos, doesn´t mean he will not like a wide M shape, since the feeling is different, and the ergonomics is another big advantage of M shape, if you have grabbed the Samurai, you would be able to tell it. Overall, I´m excited about it, that´s why I didn´t wait too long to make another M shape after the Samurai. Hope people likes the idea to keep exploring that shape. ---
**Author:** ![anon5341354](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@anon5341354](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon5341354)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/44 "2021-08-26T05:51:34Z")
I agree with @YoyoGeezer. I just don’t understand how this design would have any tangible advantage over a decently rim weighted bimetal. Perhaps there really are advantages that would be apparent when playing it, but to me, it looks a bit like an 8 legged dog. Not sure! ---
**Author:** ![Theycallmecotton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/theycallmecotton/32/253526_2.png) [@Theycallmecotton](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Theycallmecotton)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/45 "2021-08-26T05:57:07Z")
Like an 8 legged dog? Looks super awesome to me ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/46 "2021-08-26T05:58:25Z")
> [@anon5341354](#): > > I agree with @YoyoGeezer. I just don’t understand how this design would have any tangible advantage over a decently rim weighted bimetal. What part of my explanations you didn´t understand? ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/47 "2021-08-26T06:00:16Z")
> [@Theycallmecotton](#): > > Like an 8 legged dog? Looks super awesome to me I wish I had an 8 legged dog!. Wonder what name I would pick. ---
**Author:** ![Theycallmecotton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/theycallmecotton/32/253526_2.png) [@Theycallmecotton](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Theycallmecotton)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/48 "2021-08-26T06:00:42Z")
That would be cool. Maybe spider haha ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/49 "2021-08-26T06:02:12Z")
Scientific name would be: Canis Arachnus Octopedus ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/50 "2021-08-26T06:02:49Z")
thats actually a rad yoyo name the “Canis Arachnus”! ---
**Author:** ![Theycallmecotton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/theycallmecotton/32/253526_2.png) [@Theycallmecotton](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Theycallmecotton)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/51 "2021-08-26T06:12:29Z")
:fire::fire::fire::fire: ---
**Author:** ![anon5341354](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@anon5341354](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon5341354)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/52 "2021-08-26T06:21:59Z")
> [@NeoHamster](#): > > Canis Arachnus Yes, it must be renamed to this! ---
**Author:** ![anon5341354](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@anon5341354](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anon5341354)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/53 "2021-08-26T06:27:39Z")
I understand what you said. It can explained to a very great degree, but how it actually is can be a different thing. Like the Samurai: I quite like it, but for something that is meant to really shine at low RPM stability, I haven’t found it to be all that much better than many of my other yoyos. I tested it side-by- against my other yoyos for this. Like I said though, I quite like the Samauri regardless. I will likely really like the Shinobi too. The Masamune… Now that thing is just an animal. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodoc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyodoc/32/48820_2.png) [@yoyodoc](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yoyodoc)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:34am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/54 "2021-08-26T06:34:53Z")
> [@anon5341354](#): > > but to me, it looks a bit like an 8 legged dog. Mmmmh? Looks more like a 4 legged Tiger to me. ---
**Author:** ![hobby\_master](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/hobby_master/32/145533_2.png) [@hobby\_master](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/hobby_master)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/55 "2021-08-26T08:19:29Z")
> [@yoyodoc](#): > > Looks more like a 4 legged Tiger to me. So a tiger? Lol It seems like a yoyo we need to throw to fully understand 🤌 ---
**Author:** ![beherenow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/beherenow/32/125309_2.png) [@beherenow](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beherenow)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/56 "2021-08-26T18:35:11Z")
A whimsical rhyme written in the 1800s was named as the most psychological poem in the world. It proposed that, if a centipede had to think about how to move each of its legs, it would be immobilized. > A centipede was happy – quite! > > Until a toad in fun > > Said, “Pray, which leg moves after which?” > > This raised her doubts to such a pitch, > > She fell exhausted in the ditch > > Not knowing how to run. The later question was asked, centipede how do you manage all those legs? To which it replied, I don’t, they manage themselves. Hinting to the fact it has no consciousness of self. Wiki - **“The Centipede’s Dilemma”** is a short poem that has lent its name to a psychological effect called the **centipede effect** or **centipede syndrome**. The centipede effect occurs when a normally automatic or unconscious activity is disrupted by consciousness of it or reflection on it. For example, a golfer thinking too closely about her swing or someone thinking too much about how he knots his tie may find his performance of the task impaired. The effect is also known as **hyperreflection** or **Humphrey’s law** [[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Centipede%27s_Dilemma#cite_note-colman-1) after English psychologist [George Humphrey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Humphrey_(psychologist)) (1889–1966), who propounded it in 1923. As he wrote of the poem, “This is a most psychological rhyme. It contains a profound truth which is illustrated daily in the lives of all of us”. Or as Bruce Lee stated, “The consciousness of self is the greatest hindrance to proper execution of all physical action.” ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/57 "2021-08-27T05:10:33Z")
> [@anon5341354](#): > > I understand what you said. It can explained to a very great degree, but how it actually is can be a different thing. > > Like the Samurai: I quite like it, but for something that is meant to really shine at low RPM stability, I haven’t found it to be all that much better than many of my other yoyos. I tested it side-by- against my other yoyos for this. > > Like I said though, I quite like the Samauri regardless. I will likely really like the Shinobi too. > > The Masamune… Now that thing is just an animal. Sad you can´t notice it. the performance at low RPM is one of the first things most people notice when they tell me their feedback. I never asked them if they put 2 yoyos side by side, i suspect they meant low RPM while performing their usual tricks. But we are talking about the Shinobi You know me, and you know I don´t talk lightly. And I never said this as far as I can remember, as a designer, and putting my reputation on the line: The Shinobi is the Best Sengoku so far in terms of performance. (in my subjective opinion of course, according to my preferences and humble skill level.) Plus the look is great! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![YoyoGeezer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyogeezer/32/755_2.png) [@YoyoGeezer](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoyoGeezer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/58 "2021-08-28T00:31:46Z")
To answer a few questions: My comments on performance were in reference to what I would have expected from a similarly sized, bi-metal design. Because the Samurai had a relatively small outer-rim; the performance was not what I thought it might be. It is by no means a bad yo-yo. But the advantages to the innovative shape were not apparent to me. I am a casual player. I play for 10-15 minutes at a time. As such; I have not developed my skills as much as many in the time I have played. I play mostly to relax; and distract my mind. I buy and play lots of yo-yo’s and keep very few. I am intrigued by new ideas and designs. My question here was made with the utmost respect for Sengoku and all of the great throws they have made. I still have a Masamune that is proudly displayed in my "keepers’ case. As Glencacius said: “that thing is just an animal”. Obviously, the designer is proud of his new design. I was merely asking a basic question as to why he thought the M-shape was so good. I beg forgiveness if offense was taken. ---
**Author:** ![NeoHamster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/neohamster/32/1550_2.png) [@NeoHamster](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/NeoHamster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/59 "2021-08-28T00:39:57Z")
> [@YoyoGeezer](#): > > I beg forgiveness if offense was taken. I´m trying to find what did I said that looks like I am offended. I know your intentions are legit, you been around for a while. All I´m trying to do is to actually answer your question. And yes, Masamune is a beast. :wink: ---
**Author:** ![YoyoGeezer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyogeezer/32/755_2.png) [@YoyoGeezer](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoyoGeezer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2021, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548/60 "2021-08-28T00:41:12Z")
You did not say you were offended. I have such respect for Sengoku; I did not want there to be any ambiguity. You rock. To be clear; I will buy one of these ASAP; questions or not. [Previous page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/sengoku-shinobi-in-production/341548.md?page=4)