# PSA: Fake/bootleg/counterfeit A-RT Grails are in circulation
**URL:** https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894
**Category:** General Yo-Yo
**Created:** [December 8, 2020, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894 "2020-12-08T08:18:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@bobafret](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/bobafret)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/62 "2020-12-09T12:40:05Z")
Totally agree! The part that gets me is saying they had the counterfeit packaging, but then that wasn’t sent with the yoyo? If you have the two slices of wood with the original Jensen drawing, you include that with the sale of a Grail every time, you’re not like “oh yeah I had that too but didn’t send it”
I’d love to see the counterfeit Dinkface “thank you” paper but would bet that is a fabricated detail of the story.
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### Author:  [@SR1](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SR1)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/63 "2020-12-09T12:49:20Z")
Some clarification, although I must agree with you on the suspiciousness of it all.
> [@fatguysnacks247](#):
>
> they bought 3 raw/clear grails for $250 at a contest in china (had to have been a year or more ago)
Accurate. I found out a few hours ago it was the 2019 Dongbei YoYo Contest that took place in January 2019 in China.
> [@fatguysnacks247](#):
>
> they were sold ‘on the down low’, but all came with art. why both?
I don’t see why it can’t be both. If I was selling counterfeit Grails myself at a yoyo contest, I definitely wouldn’t be shouting it from the rooftops lmao. To me it seems like the cherry on top of the sundae needed in order to get the buyer to believe it was real.
> [@fatguysnacks247](#):
>
> the seller knows enough about yoyos, a-rt and contests to travel to china over a year ago,
Slight correction. Seller is from China but no longer lives there, he picked these up when he lived there.
> [@fatguysnacks247](#):
>
> pick up three underpriced grails at a contest, bring them to the US
Seller lives internationally, not in US. As far as I know, my receipt of this yoyo marks the first time one of these has entered the US.
> [@fatguysnacks247](#):
>
> find an anodizer to have them anodized - plain purple - and then sell them unwittingly as real grails - but never mention any of the happenings… even prior to the sale…
Now this… THIS is what I wish I knew BEFORE the sale. Luckily I was refunded lmao…
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### Author:  [@fatguysnacks247](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/fatguysnacks247)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/64 "2020-12-09T13:07:33Z")
thank you for this info man, this is the good stuff…
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### Author:  [@bobafret](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/bobafret)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/65 "2020-12-09T13:09:07Z")
Yeah @SR1 thank you for posting all this detailed info in such a presentable format. It’s a service to the community and makes for a GREAT morning coffee read!
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### Author:  [@SR1](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SR1)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/66 "2020-12-09T13:13:26Z")
> [@fatguysnacks247](#):
>
> thank you for this info man, this is the good stuff…
> [@bobafret](#):
>
> Yeah @SR1 thank you for posting all this detailed info in such a presentable format. It’s a service to the community and makes for a GREAT morning coffee read!
No problem my dudes! I just wish I had a thread exactly like this when I was doing research and trying to figure out if it was real or not, so at least it exists for future reference. And you gotta admit, it’s pretty effing interesting haha… and quite the fun mystery as @anon5341354 pointed out.
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### Author:  [@PCaliyoyos](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/PCaliyoyos)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/67 "2020-12-09T13:51:10Z")
The question still remains… Who had them made?
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### Author:  [@fatguysnacks247](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/fatguysnacks247)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/68 "2020-12-09T13:59:28Z")
CHUDs
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### Author:  [@PCaliyoyos](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/PCaliyoyos)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/69 "2020-12-09T14:00:32Z")
I should’ve known…
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### Author:  [@French](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/French)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/70 "2020-12-09T15:21:36Z")
This is like Scooby Doo. I just hope when it is discovered who is behind the manufacture, they have the decency to say “I would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those meddling kids and their Internet forum.” Of course, most of us in this thread haven’t been kids since Scooby Doo was a Saturday morning cartoon highlight.
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### Author:  [@fatguysnacks247](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/fatguysnacks247)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/71 "2020-12-09T15:31:13Z")
zoooiiiiks!!!
i’ll eat a 6-foot sandwich to that!!
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### Author:  [@French](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/French)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/72 "2020-12-09T15:37:58Z")
> [@fatguysnacks247](#):
>
> i’ll eat a 6-foot sandwich to that!!
Don’t forget the Scooby Snacks!
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### Author:  [@fatguysnacks247](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/fatguysnacks247)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/73 "2020-12-09T15:50:15Z")
RabsoRootely!
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### Author:  [@beezy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beezy)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/74 "2020-12-09T16:12:03Z")
> [@SR1](#):
>
> As far as I know, my receipt of this yoyo marks the first time one of these has entered the US.
A crazy part of this whole thing is that it unfortunately mirrors some huge thing that has happened this year. I don’t claim that it has any greater significance, it’s just weird like that. We can at least be thankful that the Frails will not multiply on their own, and that they appear to be very limited (for now).
This also reminds me how there were fake YYRs from China, first, but then YYR eventually started doing some of their own manufacturing in China.
Copyright and intellectual property is loosely handled in China, and this has been a point of contention in international trade relations. Maybe this will get more strict, eventually, but for now it makes sense to see fakes coming from China. Not disparaging China, here, because high quality yoyos are made in China with proper attribution, but I’m just trying to be matter of fact about why we see these fakes coming out of China versus other places.
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### Author:  [@Grendel](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Grendel)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/75 "2020-12-10T21:42:48Z")
Gee, if only someone had been saying just these things for years. Man that could have helped. Oy Vey.
I’m shocked, just shocked to find gambling at Ricks!
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### Author:  [@Pinktweetybird](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Pinktweetybird)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/76 "2020-12-10T22:38:28Z")
How sad. This is one of the best communities that abides by the honor system. Sad to see the whole
Community affected by this. A blip in the larger scheme of things but we all hold ourselves to a higher standard so this hurts everyone.
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### Author:  [@yodini](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yodini)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 4:59am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/77 "2020-12-11T04:59:58Z")
No machine shop is going to copy a product and get the diameter wrong.
Surface finish sure, but the diameter?
I don’t see it.
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### Author:  [@Flyinghippo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Flyinghippo)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 5:45am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/78 "2020-12-11T05:45:36Z")
If they were manufactured to be passed off as counterfeit Grails, most likely the person doing the fake didn’t have an original and was taking best guesses on the size and shape based on pictures and stats (which sometimes aren’t precise) listed on the internet. Or it could have been something as simple as being sloppy with their CAD drawing that they sent to the manufacturer when they ordered the fakes.
The other possibility I see is that they were manufactured by a company with a designed “inspired” by the Grail shape. The seller then bought the yoyos and anodized them purple in an attempt to pass them off as genuine A-rt grails at the yoyo contest or directly to @SR1.
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### Author:  [@yyfben2.deactivated](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yyfben2.deactivated)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/79 "2020-12-11T06:01:40Z")
The irony?
The only legal issue is the use of a patented bearing, without paying a royalty.
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### Author:  [@SR1](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SR1)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/80 "2020-12-11T08:53:11Z")
Oof.
Would love if you could expand on this some more. Is a simple design like the Grail not able to be patented? At what point is a yoyo design distinct enough to be patented? Is there technically anything in place that protects YYF from someone making Shutter knockoffs, for example? (Pls no one do this)
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### Author:  [@mrciurleo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/mrciurleo)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/psa-fake-bootleg-counterfeit-a-rt-grails-are-in-circulation/330894/81 "2020-12-11T12:51:48Z")
I could be wrong but I’ll take a swing at this. Most yoyo patents are for technology (if you will), Proyo brake pads, YYF hubstacks, etc., things that functionally alter a yoyo. I’m guessing besides being cost prohibitive and unreasonable due to how long processing a patent application takes, there’s just nothing proprietary about a yoyo shape.
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