# PopCast #26: The Ti-Vayder Awakens
**URL:** https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691
**Category:** Yo-Yo Videos
**Created:** [June 11, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691 "2019-06-11T00:36:43Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/61 "2019-06-11T20:13:05Z")
> [@da5id](#):
>
> And with only 88 in existence (I have one) the sample size of opinion has to be kind of small.
Well we’re gonna fix that… by _vastly increasing the sample size!!_
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### Author:  [@MarkD](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MarkD)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/62 "2019-06-11T20:15:23Z")
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> vastly increasing the sample size!!
This is your trademark SCIENCE! solution, isn’t it 😆
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### Author:  [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/63 "2019-06-11T20:17:08Z")
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> by _vastly increasing the sample size_
However, now it would be that the Vayder could be the “best”. It’s no longer the Walker. Gap and response have been changed. So more like a TiWalker 2. An increase of the sample size would be to have an exact creation, gap/response everything.
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### Author:  [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/64 "2019-06-11T20:17:29Z")
> [@da5id](#):
>
> And with only 88 in existence (I have one)
I know it’s a tough and potentially loaded question but, all other things aside and based just on the merits of the yoyo’s play, what do you think? Is it a top five you’ve played?
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### Author:  [@HVizier](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/HVizier)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/65 "2019-06-11T20:18:01Z")
Changing the tires and axles on a mustang doesn’t make it a Camaro or a Mustang 2 lol.
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### Author:  [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/66 "2019-06-11T20:18:23Z")
It will change the way it handles and drives though.
Can’t compare a stock Mustang to a GT500, or even a stock to a GT.
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### Author:  [@HVizier](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/HVizier)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/67 "2019-06-11T20:19:12Z")
By that standard swapping a bearing makes a yoyo a whole new yoyo though 🤷♂️.
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### Author:  [@da5id](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/da5id)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/68 "2019-06-11T20:20:03Z")
It’s a fine yo-yo, but I think the hype about it comes from the following things:
1. Titanium
2. Rarity
That’s a magical combination.
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### Author:  [@HVizier](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/HVizier)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/69 "2019-06-11T20:21:11Z")
I agree with @da5id here.
I’m actually looking forward to seeing people’s reviews on it.
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### Author:  [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/70 "2019-06-11T20:22:52Z")
> [@AaronW](#):
>
> However, now it would be that the Vayder could be the “best”. It’s no longer the Walker. Gap and response have been changed.
Very little to no noticeable change in play. If I wasn’t told the gap had been changed I’m sure I wouldn’t have noticed.
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### Author:  [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/71 "2019-06-11T20:22:58Z")
Have to highly disagree based on experience. Jeff has physically made changes to your design, slight thought they may be, it’s been changed. My 4mm YWET plays quite differently than my standard YWET with a 4.4mm gap.
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### Author:  [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/72 "2019-06-11T20:27:29Z")
You own both to make than comparison. The majority that will be buying a Vayder do not. Thus, can not say the TiWalker is the “best yoyo made”. It’s still been changed (also wasn’t the nipple changed to not cause the axle to push through).
I’m not trying to take anything away from the Walker or the Vayder, just making an observation that they are different. Like I said the Vayder is more of a TiWalker Part 2. Thus the sample size of the original has not been increased.
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### Author:  [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/73 "2019-06-11T20:29:52Z")
> [@AaronW](#):
>
> Like I said the Vayder is more of a TiWalker Part 2. Thus the sample size of the original has not been increased.
No doubt that this really can’t be argued. Facts are facts. I’ll say this though, if you try the Vayder and rank it near the top or at the top I’ll bet lotsa $ that you’d feel the same way about the original. They’re that close.
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### Author:  [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/74 "2019-06-11T20:30:18Z")
In the sense that resale values on the originals should not change, because they are _the original originals_, I agree!
In the sense that they play meaningfully different, I don’t agree :wink:
We’ve had several Walker owners confirm that the Vayder plays identical to the original, including the creator himself, I think that’s good enough for me!
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### Author:  [@HVizier](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/HVizier)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/75 "2019-06-11T20:30:33Z")
Playability doesn’t make it something different is what I’m saying. At best it’s a “Ti Walker 2nd run”
A Mustang GT, a mustang GT500, and a standard package Mustang from the same year all perform differently. They’re all still Mustangs.
The Ti Vayder was made to be a current Ti Walker. @codinghorror and everyone else on the project went in with that goal and succeeded.
The 1st run Peaks and 3rd run Peaks had more variance in design than the Vayder and Walker do. Does that make them the Peak 2 and the Peak 2 actually the Peak 3?
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### Author:  [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/76 "2019-06-11T20:47:16Z")
> [@HVizier](#):
>
> At best it’s a “Ti Walker 2nd run”
This is what I’ve been saying.
> [@HVizier](#):
>
> The 1st run Peaks and 3rd run Peaks had more variance in design than the Vayder and Walker do. Does that make them the Peak 2 and the Peak 2 actually the Peak 3?
They are still Peaks, but you’ll always have people ask when an OG Peak pops up for sale “What run is this?” Because people know there are differences.
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> In the sense that resale values on the originals should not change
Agree 100%
> [@codinghorror](#):
>
> In the sense that they play meaningfully different, I don’t agree :wink:
>
> We’ve had several Walker owners confirm that the Vayder plays identical to the original, including the creator himself, I think that’s good enough for me!
I just went back and read Heath’s review, he doesn’t say it plays identical. He basically said they’re extremely close. Which is cool. He also said the gap change was “accommodating”. Which at least to me makes it seem like it’s better for todays playing. Again not a bad thing.
I don’t have my TiWalker anymore, and don’t plan on buying a Vayder, so couldn’t compare the two. I just know, in my experience, that if you are increasing the gap .5mm (thus increasing the overall width) there is going to be a change. They may play very close to each other, but there will be differences, even slight.
But I didn’t come here to argue, or derail, just make what I felt was an obvious observation. I did learn Washing Machine today from the video, so thanks for that 🙂
Looking forward to hearing about the charity, or whatever you’ve got planned for the profits, and hope it does do a lot of good for the community and increasing it. Hope they all sell out for you quick Jeff 
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### Author:  [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/77 "2019-06-11T21:25:14Z")
I hope it doesn’t sell out quickly, because if it does it means that 500 wasn’t enough to achieve the stated goal of meeting current _and future_ demand. Of course, Jeff has never articulated how far into the future this supply is meant/hoped to last. But I have to believe he intends/hopes supply will last for more than a few days or weeks.
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### Author:  [@da5id](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/da5id)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/78 "2019-06-11T21:29:48Z")
To your point, if the changes don’t change the play, then why were they made? In my experience you can’t make a change on a yo-yo that doesn’t affect the play because the whole thing spins.
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### Author:  [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/79 "2019-06-11T21:36:37Z")
Considering a large portion, maybe even most of the yoyo community doesn’t know about this project because he hasn’t promoted on Facebook or Instagram, I don’t think this will be selling out that quickly
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### Author:  [@smileypants707](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/smileypants707)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/popcast-26-the-ti-vayder-awakens/303691/80 "2019-06-11T21:42:44Z")
I’ve been trying to keep the Reddit community filled in, but as usual, it seems like a pretty tough crowd 🙄
This project essentially combines 2 hot button things for that community:
1. @codinghorror
And
2. @HVizier
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