# Is the YoyoJam Patent dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Yo-Yo\ **Created:** [September 9, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338 "2014-09-09T04:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![YoyoGeezer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyogeezer/32/755_2.png) [@YoyoGeezer](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoyoGeezer)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/21 "2014-09-09T22:55:59Z")
I do not think you guys understood what I was trying to say. I was not questioning when the patent expires. That is a matter of public record; easily searched anywhere. I am talking about the idea that YYJ owns the design of dense rims on a yoyo. The new YYF Space Cowboy seems to violate these long-held opinions and begs the question whether the days of this being YYJ exclusive design territory may be coming to and end. I am assuming that YYF/Ben would never pay licensing fees to YYJ. Perhaps I am wrong. But assuming that YYF is not paying license fees; how will YYJ respond? Clearly in YYF we finally have someone with the $ to challenge this silly interpretation of this set of claims. I think Ben and YYF realize this patent is un-defendeble and are simply ignoring YYJ’s claims. More importantly, I think this is a sign that the entire industry will be moving in this design direction. Why else would YYF make this yo-yo? Why take this chance? … Loophole in the patent - I doubt it. Again, I think they are going to challenge this interpretation in the marketplace and perhaps the courts. It will now be up to YYJ to respond or not. Is the suit worth the legal fees and the prospect of losing? I have read the patent in question. I do not believe that the claims made by YYJ to have patented dense rims is what is in the patent at all. This patent is about how the plastic half and the metal half are put-together. Noting that the denser metal will contribute to spin and stability seems to be an afterthought; a bonus that comes with their construction technique. I also wonder whether this patent only applies to plastic/metal. In the patent, they specifically cite the metal half being “molded” into the lighter plastic half. Metal/Metal, however, is not molded. It is machined. I see no evidence that YYJ is seeking to patent the idea of denser rims. If so, why cite “molding” why not just say "joined? ---
**Author:** ![yomagic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yomagic/32/131_2.png) [@yomagic](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yomagic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/22 "2014-09-09T23:12:58Z")
I specifically talked to Tyler Severance about this yoyo at NER. There is a loophole. I dont know if there’s any better source lol ---
**Author:** ![Proboscis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/proboscis/32/135627_2.png) [@Proboscis](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Proboscis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/23 "2014-09-09T23:15:08Z")
> [@yomagic](#): > > I specifically talked to Tyler Severance about this yoyo at NER. There is a loophole. I for know if there’s any better source lol I was with him when he asked Tyler about the loophole. ---
**Author:** ![Rixtify](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/rixtify/32/16_2.png) [@Rixtify](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Rixtify)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/24 "2014-09-09T23:51:37Z")
Patent covers plastic w/ metal rims from what I understand and applies only to the USA Genesis SS and stuff like Turning Point get sold here since the second metals are used as weight rings under/inside the rim, not the whole rim edge of the yoyo… It’s either that or YYF just fooled us by polishing the rims REALLY REALLY GOOD ---
**Author:** ![Pineapple\_Jumpsuit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/pineapple_jumpsuit/32/1431_2.png) [@Pineapple\_Jumpsuit](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Pineapple_Jumpsuit)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/25 "2014-09-09T23:59:27Z")
I’m pretty sure it was not specifically metal and plastic, but a denser metal on the rim. ---
**Author:** ![unklesteve](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/unklesteve/32/106934_2.png) [@unklesteve](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/unklesteve)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/26 "2014-09-10T00:02:30Z")
Other yoyos with rims made of a denser material than the body include the Throw Monkey and Flying Panda. And Henrys Lizard. And quite a few others. ---
**Author:** ![yoyospirit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyospirit/32/219875_2.png) [@yoyospirit](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yoyospirit)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/27 "2014-09-10T00:10:04Z")
Fairly sure the design of the Space Cowboy infringes the patent. The Draupnir was not supposed to be sold in the U.S. because of the steel rim, the Helix was licensed, no reason to license it if it didn’t infringe the patent. Apparently the C22 was only allowed because it came in a limited quantity. I just can’t what loop hole YYF used for the Space Cowboy, the design of the rim is pretty much the same as that of the Draupnir. ---
**Author:** ![SloppyBinds](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/sloppybinds/32/1179_2.png) [@SloppyBinds](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SloppyBinds)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/28 "2014-09-10T00:14:08Z")
Some Werrd bi-metal (Beef, and Mystery Meat?) yoyos were removed from the YYE store a few years ago due to the supposed infringement as well. ---
**Author:** ![Yoyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/41988e/32.png) [@Yoyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Yoyo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/29 "2014-09-10T00:47:16Z")
> [@SloppyBinds](#): > > Some Werrd bi-metal (Beef, and Mystery Meat?) yoyos were removed from the YYE store a few years ago due to the supposed infringement as well. I wish the x-decision series took off. ---
**Author:** ![yoyoboy224](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f14d63/32.png) [@yoyoboy224](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yoyoboy224)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/30 "2014-09-10T03:22:37Z")
Why the patent in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![kyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/df705f/32.png) [@kyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/kyo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/31 "2014-09-10T03:46:07Z")
> [@Steve Brown](#): > > Other yoyos with rims made of a denser material than the body include the Throw Monkey and Flying Panda. And Henrys Lizard. And quite a few others. one of the many reasons the entire patent is bs to begin with. Kyle ---
**Author:** ![GoCrazyForYoyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/gocrazyforyoyo/32/7941_2.png) [@GoCrazyForYoyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GoCrazyForYoyo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/32 "2014-09-10T06:06:24Z")
> [@Someone](#): > > Why the patent in the first place? YYJ liked the idea of being the only US company to make big $$$ off of this type of design. ---
**Author:** ![Philip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Philip](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Philip)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/33 "2014-09-10T18:12:50Z")
> [@GoCrazyForYoyo](#): > > YYJ liked the idea of being the only US company to make big $$$ off of this type of design. If they didn’t patent it, they wouldn’t have made as much money off of it, so it’s perfectly understandable. ---
**Author:** ![patrickcondon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/patrickcondon/32/619950_2.png) [@patrickcondon](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/patrickcondon)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/34 "2014-09-10T18:28:38Z")
In the yoyo community, is protecting your idea is as much of a jerk move as taking an idea? Vague patents have always been detrimental to progress, so let’s disregard that. On one hand, protecting your invention allows you to make back your R&D without being undermined. On the other, the yoyo market moves so fast from one idea to the other, and most companies do share a mutual respect for each other. How much is lost through knockoffs; is it enough to make patents necessary in most cases? I’m genuinely curious. I don’t know a great amount about yoyo as a competitive business in relation to patent law and somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![GoCrazyForYoyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/gocrazyforyoyo/32/7941_2.png) [@GoCrazyForYoyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GoCrazyForYoyo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/35 "2014-09-10T19:54:21Z")
> [@Philip](#): > > If they didn’t patent it, they wouldn’t have made as much money off of it, so it’s perfectly understandable. Yeah I know that. Never said it wasn’t a good business sense move. ---
**Author:** ![Jerrod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/jerrod/32/367145_2.png) [@Jerrod](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Jerrod)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/36 "2014-09-11T00:22:47Z")
😃 ---
**Author:** ![Logi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/logi/32/7932_2.png) [@Logi](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Logi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/37 "2014-09-11T03:04:15Z")
I hate bi-metals. ---
**Author:** ![da5id](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/da5id/32/48214_2.png) [@da5id](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/da5id)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/38 "2014-09-11T04:46:17Z")
> [@Jerrod](#): > > I would bet that little is lost from a particular company due to knockoff yo-yos. Most people that buy knockoffs probably do it because it’s cheap; and, if they didn’t have the option of the knockoff, they would probably not buy the real one. They would just buy a different yo-yo that is cheap. Some may buy knockoffs because they want a yo-yo that looks a certain way, but not bad enough to pay for the real one. They would shell out a few bucks for the knockoff; but, if they didn’t have that option, they wouldn’t buy the real one. > > All of this is just a guess, of course. It’s impossible to know how much is actually lost through knockoffs. > > That’s a philosophical question. My opinion is that patents are a discredit. They impede innovation. The term “Intellectual Property” is a joke. You can not own ideas, or even unique expressions of them. Discredit to who? How do they impede innovation? Just curious if you can elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![YoyoGeezer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyogeezer/32/755_2.png) [@YoyoGeezer](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoyoGeezer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/39 "2014-09-11T05:33:17Z")
> [@da5id](#): > > Discredit to who? How do they impede innovation? Just curious if you can elaborate. I think that it is an established fact that many patents are a detriment to innovation. That is why so many in the software industry are lobbying for changes in the laws. The Supreme Court recently struck down an awarded patent for being trivial and a detriment to innovation. I would agree that patents, in many cases, are a great way to protect intellectual rights. But the American system is clearly broken when trivial, or intellectually questionable patents are awarded and then enforced. This system works very well in an industry worth billions of dollars. For yo-yo’s; not so much. I would submit that the YYJ patent has been a detriment to innovation. The products coming from Yoyorecreation bring a whole new level of performance and play to the market. The US market, however, cannot innovate. US manufacturers cannot make and sell anything like a Draupnir for fear of running afoul of the YYJ patent. Meanwhile, Yoyorecreation continues to do R&D as well as sell from their site. License? How can a domestic manufacturer license when Yoyorecreation pays none? No, the whole framework is busted with these silly patents in yo-yo. ---
**Author:** ![YoyoGeezer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyogeezer/32/755_2.png) [@YoyoGeezer](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoyoGeezer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338/40 "2014-09-11T05:36:20Z")
Is YYF selling the Space Cowboy in the US? I have only seen it on overseas sites. I hope they are not going to confine it to overseas sites. How ironic if Americans are shut-out of this new, innovative market for multi-material yo-yo’s. [Previous page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/is-the-yoyojam-patent-dead/69338.md?page=3)