# DM II or PGmachine **URL:** \ **Category:** Looking for Help/Recommendation\ **Created:** [October 31, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676 "2012-10-31T20:11:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![glgmsi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@glgmsi](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/glgmsi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/1 "2012-10-31T20:11:42Z")
Hello!I’m using YYF Velocity and i think that is time to go further and change my yoyo with better one. What do you think is better for intermediate play? YYF Plastic Grind Machine or Yoyojam Dark Magic II.I prefer DM II,beacuse there is fast bearing included in the box and it’s metal,but i can’t say if it is better.On the other hand PGM has got hubstacks,but it’s plastic.I’m waiting for your opinion! 🙂 🙂🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jsell14](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/jsell14/32/1030_2.png) [@jsell14](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/jsell14)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/2 "2012-10-31T20:29:12Z")
I’ve never tried the PGM, but I can say that the DM2 is an amazing yoyo. It can take you from beginner to master easily. The extra bearing is also good so you can go from responsive to unresponsive whenever you are ready. I’ve heard that hubstacks are more of a novelty. If you are just looking for performance, you might want to get the stackless grind machine and save $20. I would personally go with the Dark Magic 2. It is an amazing yoyo. ---
**Author:** ![anonyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@anonyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anonyo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/3 "2012-10-31T20:31:50Z")
DM2 by far! ---
**Author:** ![anonyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@anonyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anonyo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/4 "2012-10-31T20:44:46Z")
DM2. The PGM is nice, but the shape is less forgiving than the DM2. The DM2 is worth the extra money. I have both. I like both. DM2 still one of my go-to throws. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Yoyoguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/mr_yoyoguy/32/922_2.png) [@Mr\_Yoyoguy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Mr_Yoyoguy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/5 "2012-10-31T21:18:08Z")
Personally, I’d choose the Northstar. That may be just me. I don’t know about you all, but my plastic started to seperate from the metal rims like crazy, causing major vibe. With the PGM, I agree that hubstacks are a novelty more than anything else, and the shape isn’t as forgiving as the DM2 or Northstar. ---
**Author:** ![glgmsi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@glgmsi](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/glgmsi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/6 "2012-10-31T21:43:00Z")
Northstar you say? I haven’t thought about that about that,but DM II has got 2 bearings in the box and i can transfer from responsive to unresponsive. ---
**Author:** ![daniel0731ex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@daniel0731ex](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/daniel0731ex)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/7 "2012-10-31T22:20:12Z")
While the PGM is a nice and smooth yoyo, it is not much of a player. At half of its price, the Lyn Fury plays wayyy better that that, not to mention that there are even better alternatives. I only paid $20 for mine and still think it is a complete waste of money. I actually think the WHiP plays better than the PGM, believe it or not. At the price range, I’d recommend the SFX. It plays better than the DMII in my opinion and also has the two-bearing option. Performance-wise, it’s up there with the Protostar and North Star, but much more forgiving due to the the weight placement as well as the shape. ---
**Author:** ![yuki\_onitsura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yuki_onitsura/32/1162_2.png) [@yuki\_onitsura](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yuki_onitsura)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/8 "2012-10-31T22:34:58Z")
Of the two, the DM2 takes it without a doubt. Other good options in that price range are the YYF Northstar/Protostar/Shaqlerstar and the YYJ Trigger. Yuki ---
**Author:** ![glgmsi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@glgmsi](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/glgmsi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/9 "2012-10-31T22:46:27Z")
> [@daniel0731ex](#): > > While the PGM is a nice and smooth yoyo, it is not much of a player. At half of its price, the Lyn Fury plays wayyy better that that, not to mention that there are even better alternatives. I only paid $20 for mine and still think it is a complete waste of money. > > I actually think the WHiP plays better than the PGM, believe it or not. > > At the price range, I’d recommend the SFX. It plays better than the DMII in my opinion and also has the two-bearing option. Performance-wise, it’s up there with the Protostar and North Star, but much more forgiving due to the the weight placement as well as the shape. What’s that SFX? Is it YYJ SpinFactor X? ---
**Author:** ![anonyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@anonyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anonyo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/10 "2012-10-31T23:31:19Z")
> [@glgmsi](#): > > What’s that SFX? Is it YYJ SpinFactor X? Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![anonyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@anonyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anonyo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/11 "2012-11-01T11:44:41Z")
definitely the dark magic II. ---
**Author:** ![anonyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@anonyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anonyo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/12 "2012-11-01T15:10:19Z")
The DM2 was my second yoyo after a Duncan Freehand. The DM2 was a great yoyo for me to learn on. I gave it away to a person interested in learning to play yoyo. The YoyoJam New Breed is good too, actually I think it is better, that was my 3rd yoyo. ---
**Author:** ![glgmsi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@glgmsi](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/glgmsi)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/13 "2012-11-01T15:35:30Z")
What do you think for YYJ Atmosphere and YYJ SR-71? I’ve also checked YYJ Speeder and Fever? What about them or DM II is the best for my kind of play (intermediate- still learning)? 🙂 ??? ---
**Author:** ![anonyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@anonyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/anonyo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/14 "2012-11-01T17:11:48Z")
> [@glgmsi](#): > > What do you think for YYJ Atmosphere and YYJ SR-71? I’ve also checked YYJ Speeder and Fever? What about them or DM II is the best for my kind of play (intermediate- still learning)? 🙂 ??? Once you can bind. get whatever you want. I do recommend something in the midrange prices for the time being, but you can get whatever you want. I don’t have the Atmo, SR-71, SFX or Fever, but I do have the Speeder 2 of that list, and the DM2. The Speeder 2 is designed for speed, but the stock bearings are nice but you should get a KK in there and this thing is a powerful yoyo!! I made the mistake of popping a KK in my Speeder while on vacation and I burned most of my vacation time trying to get back to this yoyo to throw it… although I did enjoy my vacation as well. The Speeder 2 is all catch zone, all speed machine. A warning: the brass rings can come loose, so you may need to press them back into place. Just a warning. I still really like mine and this has happened twice. They haven’t come off, just come loose. My DM2 goes with me almost anywhere I go. The Fever has gotten mixed reviews. In my opinion, it’s not a model I am interested in obtaining, regardless of the reviews. It just didn’t visually appeal to me. Really, of what you’ve chosen, you can’t go wrong with any of them. It really is a decision of preferences. I’m not planning to get an Atmosphere. I am interested in an SFX and SR-71, but no hurry on those. Other models you might consider is the Vexed, which really surprised and pleased me. I got it as part of a payment, it’s not a model I was initially interested in. Oh man, it’s good! But back to what I said initially. Once you can bind, get whatever you want. You can learn on anything. The DM2 does have a proven track record and is widely used and generally well received. Like with anything, not everyone loves this yoyo, but that seems to be a very smal minority. I really like mine. The high inner walls force cleaner play, while the wide shape gives a generous catch zone. ---
**Author:** ![glgmsi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@glgmsi](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/glgmsi)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/15 "2012-11-01T17:25:11Z")
> [@Studio42](#): > > > [@glgmsi](#): > > > > What do you think for YYJ Atmosphere and YYJ SR-71? I’ve also checked YYJ Speeder and Fever? What about them or DM II is the best for my kind of play (intermediate- still learning)? 🙂 ??? > > Once you can bind. get whatever you want. I do recommend something in the midrange prices for the time being, but you can get whatever you want. > > I don’t have the Atmo, SR-71, SFX or Fever, but I do have the Speeder 2 of that list, and the DM2. > > The Speeder 2 is designed for speed, but the stock bearings are nice but you should get a KK in there and this thing is a powerful yoyo!! I made the mistake of popping a KK in my Speeder while on vacation and I burned most of my vacation time trying to get back to this yoyo to throw it… although I did enjoy my vacation as well. The Speeder 2 is all catch zone, all speed machine. A warning: the brass rings can come loose, so you may need to press them back into place. Just a warning. I still really like mine and this has happened twice. They haven’t come off, just come loose. > > My DM2 goes with me almost anywhere I go. > > The Fever has gotten mixed reviews. In my opinion, it’s not a model I am interested in obtaining, regardless of the reviews. It just didn’t visually appeal to me. > > Really, of what you’ve chosen, you can’t go wrong with any of them. It really is a decision of preferences. I’m not planning to get an Atmosphere. I am interested in an SFX and SR-71, but no hurry on those. > > Other models you might consider is the Vexed, which really surprised and pleased me. I got it as part of a payment, it’s not a model I was initially interested in. Oh man, it’s good! > > But back to what I said initially. Once you can bind, get whatever you want. You can learn on anything. The DM2 does have a proven track record and is widely used and generally well received. Like with anything, not everyone loves this yoyo, but that seems to be a very smal minority. I really like mine. The high inner walls force cleaner play, while the wide shape gives a generous catch zone. Thanks for the reply.Here in our local yoyo shop in Bulgaria we have only these yoyos that i have listed.I think that I’ll go for the DM II,but I really like the SR-71.I’ll have to choose between them.Thanks all for the replies! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GregP](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/gregp/32/1192_2.png) [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/16 "2012-11-02T04:51:14Z")
A little late to the party, but I own a DM2 and also a stackless PGM. I also owned a Velocity until I damaged it beyond repair. You’re making the right choice. Of my small collection of 6 string-trick yoyos, the PGM is the only one I never (and I mean never) play. The DM2, on the other hand, was my first throw after the Velocity, and I didn’t stop reaching for it. Even after adding a few mid-priced ($70-100) metal throws to my collection, the DM2 gets just as much play time. ---
**Author:** ![supbreh1234](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/supbreh1234/32/1131_2.png) [@supbreh1234](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/supbreh1234)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/17 "2012-11-02T05:37:33Z")
> [@glgmsi](#): > > Hello!I’m using YYF Velocity and i think that is time to go further and change my yoyo with better one. What do you think is better for intermediate play? YYF Plastic Grind Machine or Yoyojam Dark Magic II.I prefer DM II,beacuse there is fast bearing included in the box and it’s metal,but i can’t say if it is better.On the other hand PGM has got hubstacks,but it’s plastic.I’m waiting for your opinion! 🙂 🙂🙂 i say new breed. its basically a wider, heavier version of the dark magic. this makes it easy to land tricks, and the heavieness is great when your learning imo. spins a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![glgmsi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@glgmsi](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/glgmsi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/dm-ii-or-pgmachine/44676/18 "2012-11-02T23:11:18Z")
> [@GregP](#): > > A little late to the party, but I own a DM2 and also a stackless PGM. I also owned a Velocity until I damaged it beyond repair. You’re making the right choice. > > Of my small collection of 6 string-trick yoyos, the PGM is the only one I never (and I mean never) play. The DM2, on the other hand, was my first throw after the Velocity, and I didn’t stop reaching for it. Even after adding a few mid-priced ($70-100) metal throws to my collection, the DM2 gets just as much play time. Nope your not late.I’m not in a hurry to buy a yoyo so you can still give your opinions for the different yoyos.I’m going to buy it in the beginning of December so i still expect your replies to the topic. 🙂