# deep state vs. alley cat **URL:** \ **Category:** Looking for Help/Recommendation\ **Created:** [May 3, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280 "2018-05-03T15:23:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smileypants707](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/smileypants707/32/19045_2.png) [@smileypants707](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/smileypants707)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280/41 "2019-12-05T07:10:28Z")
> [@codinghorror](#): > > I don’t see these items as a valid criticism personally? Why though? I stated that these were my opinions, not facts. > [@smileypants707](#): > > - not the snappiest response, hesitates just a tad I jammed the bearing full of grease on the first day. I use a fat string. I know how to tune yoyos, and [in context] compared to the Alleycat 650b I find it to hesitate slightly on response. Not unmanageable, but certainly noticeable. One Drop’s “simi responsive” description is pretty spot on IMO. > [@smileypants707](#): > > - not the grippiest stalls The DS falls off of stalls frequently; the AC has never once done this for me. As in I’ll stick a stall, and the dead yoyo falls off of the string (think toppling like a coin flipping motion). I _can do_ stalls with the DS, but they require more of a concentrated effort than with the AC. I’ve had this problem with similar tug responsive yoyos (Gamer) and other lower walled tug responsive yoyos (Whip, Sage, k1). My running theory for why these don’t stall quite as well takes three variables into consideration: 1. bearing diameter/ wall height 2. length/ thickness of string - Both 1. and 2. contribute to the center of gravity/ wall height of the yoyo during a stall. ~During a stall a larger diameter bearing + smaller diameter yoyo with longer (normal length in this context)/ thicker string specs~ the string eats up the workable walls resulting in a top heavy yoyo. 1. technique This is why I personally believe that an A size bearing DS would be the bees knees. This is my honest opinion comparing the two. I like them both just fine, they’re both pretty good. I find the DS to be a little more finicky for stalls and loops. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 7:21am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280/42 "2019-12-05T07:21:46Z")
Fair, just checkin’ to make sure you crazy lubed the bearing. I find I have to re-grease the bearing a fair bit on the Deep State to keep it ultra-responsive. ---
**Author:** ![beeebon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/beeebon/32/30672_2.png) [@beeebon](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/beeebon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280/43 "2019-12-05T07:33:57Z")
I love reading your descriptions/reviews/comparisons of yoyos. More please!! ---
**Author:** ![AaronW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/aaronw/32/49251_2.png) [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280/44 "2019-12-05T14:52:37Z")
> [@photogeek](#): > > I wouldn’t describe the OG as “response roulette” Interesting, I’ve never had a single issue with response on my OG Alleycat’s. They respond identical to my 650b’s, if not a little snappier than the 650. > [@codinghorror](#): > > Sounds to me like you need to super-heavy lube the bearing a lot? I don’t see these items as a valid criticism personally? I suggest _really_ packing the bearing with grease and evaluate again? My DS is packed and setup as responsive as I can get it, and the response still isn’t as snappy as I’d like. And I agree with Chad on the stalls as well. > [@smileypants707](#): > > My running theory for why these don’t stall quite as well takes three variables into consideration: > > 1. bearing diameter/ wall height 👆 Yep, this is what I thought too. The bearing being so large it eats up space on the wall. By the time the string is wrapped it creates a higher point of gravity that makes it want to tip. As far as the response, I’ve been pretty outspoken that true responsive yoyos should not be using a 19mm pad, it’s just not that great of a response. That said, I love my DS, I just play it in a different way than I do my Alleycat’s or other responsive yoyos 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smothers\_Tim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/smothers_tim/32/98638_2.png) [@Smothers\_Tim](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Smothers_Tim)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280/45 "2019-12-05T16:29:57Z")
Best comment ever ^\_^. ---
**Author:** ![photogeek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/photogeek/32/41072_2.png) [@photogeek](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/photogeek)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280/46 "2019-12-08T01:25:33Z")
> [@AaronW](#): > > Interesting, I’ve never had a single issue with response on my OG Alleycat’s. They respond identical to my 650b’s, if not a little snappier than the 650. I didn’t have issues so much as it was just a bit more fiddly to get set up the way I like. My 650b didn’t take as much work. I like them both. [Previous page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/deep-state-vs-alley-cat/289280.md?page=2)