# Bringing down a high end yo-yo
**URL:** https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116
**Category:** General Yo-Yo
**Created:** [February 27, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116 "2013-02-27T15:14:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@FiveIronBrian](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/FiveIronBrian)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/1 "2013-02-27T15:14:04Z")
People pay a premium on a very high end yo-yos to get certain levels of aesthetics, machining precision, smoothness, playability, sentimental value, and perhaps resale value.
For you, what does it take to bring a high end yo-yo down to the level of a lower-end yo-yo? I don’t mean extreme cases like a dinged $300 metal vs. a mint $10 plastic or a broken vs. functional yo-yo, but perhaps a dinged up $200 metal vs. a good $100 metal.
For you, is the value of high end machining precision lost after a significant ding takes away its smoothness?
Feel free to provide specific examples. No wrong answers here, just your opinions.
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### Author:  [@Yonut](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Yonut)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/2 "2013-02-27T15:20:37Z")
I only play my metals over soft surfaces, not just capret though, so I have never dinged a high end metal enough that it induces vibe.
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### Author:  [@FiveIronBrian](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/FiveIronBrian)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/3 "2013-02-27T15:23:28Z")
> [@Yonut](#):
>
> I only play my metals over soft surfaces, not just capret though, so I have never dinged a high end metal enough that it induces vibe.
Haha, that’s great. 🙂 Feel free to think hypothetically and share!
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### Author:  [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/4 "2013-02-27T15:37:01Z")
As soon as you induce detectable vibe in a previously glass-smooth premium throw, I think you’ve knocked a signficant amount off its value.
With the exception of a few rare collector’s pieces and historical pieces, scratches and pinpricks will bring down the value of a premium throw very quickly, too. Shiny $200 Sleipnir with scuffs all around the rims? If it’s still perfectly smooth, you might still get in the neighborhood of $100 for it. But you’re not getting $150 for it.
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### Author:  [@Jcpdx503](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Jcpdx503)
#### Post date: [February 27, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/5 "2013-02-27T20:31:59Z")
> [@Yonut](#):
>
> I only play my metals over soft surfaces, not just capret though, so I have never dinged a high end metal enough that it induces vibe.
Can vibe happen from repeated hits to the ground even if its not concrete or a surface that would ding the Yoyo. I’m just curious cause I usually only play over soft surfaces too but I have dinged throws before by total accident on a hard surface.
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### Author:  [@throwrw](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/throwrw)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/6 "2013-02-28T02:09:56Z")
> [@Jcpdx503](#):
>
> > [@Yonut](#):
> >
> > I only play my metals over soft surfaces, not just capret though, so I have never dinged a high end metal enough that it induces vibe.
>
> Can vibe happen from repeated hits to the ground even if its not concrete or a surface that would ding the Yoyo. I’m just curious cause I usually only play over soft surfaces too but I have dinged throws before by total accident on a hard surface.
Dings themselves very rarely induce vibe, or at least a noticeable about of vibe. people have the impression that small dings cause vibe which is in fact false.Only if you slam it on the ground and bend the axle is when real bad vibe can be caused. Keep in mind though you can bend the axle without “dinging” the yoyo. Ive heard of people hitting their elbow really hard on accident and the axle bends or they slam it on carpet real hard.
People worry too much about dinging their yoyos… for sentimental value dings only make it stronger :wink: as for value… with every ding you can see dollars shred off the resale value of your yoyo. thats just how it works. A very lightly dings, perfectly smooth, $100 retail priced yoyo can be worth like $50. Which is a shame.
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### Author:  [@MYNAMEISZen](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MYNAMEISZen)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/7 "2013-02-28T02:34:20Z")
> [@Yonut](#):
>
> I only play my metals over soft surfaces, not just capret though, so I have never dinged a high end metal enough that it induces vibe.
I play my Purple Mountain Majesty and my 28 Stories Cliff over hard surface over hard surface all the time their fine?
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### Author:  [@FiveIronBrian](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/FiveIronBrian)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/8 "2013-02-28T14:42:30Z")
> [@throwrw](#):
>
> > [@Jcpdx503](#):
> >
> > > [@Yonut](#):
> > >
> > > I only play my metals over soft surfaces, not just capret though, so I have never dinged a high end metal enough that it induces vibe.
> >
> > Can vibe happen from repeated hits to the ground even if its not concrete or a surface that would ding the Yoyo. I’m just curious cause I usually only play over soft surfaces too but I have dinged throws before by total accident on a hard surface.
>
> Dings themselves very rarely induce vibe, or at least a noticeable about of vibe. people have the impression that small dings cause vibe which is in fact false.Only if you slam it on the ground and bend the axle is when real bad vibe can be caused. Keep in mind though you can bend the axle without “dinging” the yoyo. Ive heard of people hitting their elbow really hard on accident and the axle bends or they slam it on carpet real hard.
>
> People worry too much about dinging their yoyos… for sentimental value dings only make it stronger :wink: as for value… with every ding you can see dollars shred off the resale value of your yoyo. thats just how it works. A very lightly dings, perfectly smooth, $100 retail priced yoyo can be worth like $50. Which is a shame.
I think you’re right. I didn’t mean to turn this into another “do you care about dings” thread. Let’s steer away from sentimentality (I agree, dings don’t matter much) and resale value (boring).
Specifically, I’m most interested in hearing people’s opinions on things like paying a premium on manufacturing quality. To you, has a high end yo-yo lost its value (not in dollars) once its smoothness is lost? Assuming it can’t be fixed with a new axle. Does it bring it down to the next tier of yo-yos which play well but don’t have the same level of machining precision and quality?
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### Author:  [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/9 "2013-02-28T15:55:20Z")
[quote=“FiveIronBrian,post:8,topic:50116”]
It depends on the level of vibe. :wink: Barely-detectable on a throw, undetectable during play… meh, the value isn’t affected much in terms of play value.
But if you’ve induced some major vibe… well then it’s not going to have even the perceived value of a smooth mid-range throw. I’d just kind of think of it as my “broken” throw. Not much value in something that’s broken no matter its original value.
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### Author:  [@Schnayke](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Schnayke)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/10 "2013-02-28T17:27:59Z")
For me, I find that totaly smooth yoyos lose all their value to me. I don’t like yoyos that smooth. They play weird, you can’t feel the spin, and have no personality. So to me a new yoyo has less value then a dinged one. I actualy buy yoyos for their play style not their smoothness and what not. I also don’t put much value in high end machining. I just want it made well so it doesn’t fall apart, or have other random issues. The smoothness thing is just way out there for me. So basicly I like high end machineing but not for the smoothness it produce’s but for the problem free yoyos it produces. Smoothness actualy detracts from them a bit, and cause’s me to look for “B” grades or used yoyos so I don’t have to pay extra for that.
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### Author:  [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/11 "2013-02-28T17:41:43Z")
> [@Schnayke](#):
>
> For me, I find that totaly smooth yoyos lose all their value to me. I don’t like yoyos that smooth. They play weird, you can’t feel the spin, and have no personality. So to me a new yoyo has less value then a dinged one. I actualy buy yoyos for their play style not their smoothness and what not. I also don’t put much value in high end machining. I just want it made well so it doesn’t fall apart, or have other random issues. The smoothness thing is just way out there for me. So basicly I like high end machineing but not for the smoothness it produce’s but for the problem free yoyos it produces. Smoothness actualy detracts from them a bit, and cause’s me to look for “B” grades or used yoyos so I don’t have to pay extra for that.
It’s fine to prefer some vibe (I do, too!), but there are contradictions here. High-end precision machining is intended to result in interesting features (undercuts, for example) and perfectly symmetrical halves so as to produce a smooth yoyo.
Or in shorter terms: no high-end precision machining ever intentionally produced vibe. The vibe is a sign that something went “wrong”.
Maybe I’m missing the point… I was on board with “don’t care about that level of machining” but lost the plot when you said you like “problem-free” yoyos.
I do agree that honestly-earned “battle scars” can add more personal and sentimental value to a throw, but I sense that the spirit of the question is being missed a bit when the discussion becomes just another “how important is vibe to you” thing. I missed the original point, too (I thought it was asking about how quickly damage and vibe can impact resale value!), but I think I get it now.
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### Author:  [@FiveIronBrian](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/FiveIronBrian)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/12 "2013-02-28T17:52:58Z")
> [@GregP](#):
>
> > [@Schnayke](#):
> >
> > For me, I find that totaly smooth yoyos lose all their value to me. I don’t like yoyos that smooth. They play weird, you can’t feel the spin, and have no personality. So to me a new yoyo has less value then a dinged one. I actualy buy yoyos for their play style not their smoothness and what not. I also don’t put much value in high end machining. I just want it made well so it doesn’t fall apart, or have other random issues. The smoothness thing is just way out there for me. So basicly I like high end machineing but not for the smoothness it produce’s but for the problem free yoyos it produces. Smoothness actualy detracts from them a bit, and cause’s me to look for “B” grades or used yoyos so I don’t have to pay extra for that.
>
> It’s fine to prefer some vibe (I do, too!), but there are contradictions here. High-end precision machining is intended to result in interesting features (undercuts, for example) and perfectly symmetrical halves so as to produce a smooth yoyo.
>
> Or in shorter terms: no high-end precision machining ever intentionally produced vibe. The vibe is a sign that something went “wrong”.
>
> Maybe I’m missing the point… I was on board with “don’t care about that level of machining” but lost the plot when you said you like “problem-free” yoyos.
>
> I do agree that honestly-earned “battle scars” can add more personal and sentimental value to a throw, but I sense that the spirit of the question is being missed a bit when the discussion becomes just another “how important is vibe to you” thing. I missed the original point, too (I thought it was asking about how quickly damage and vibe can impact resale value!), but I think I get it now.
Hey, no problem on missing the point of my thread. It was totally my fault for leaving it so open! I should have limited it to the value of manufacturing quality.
I think what he meant by liking high end machining for “problem-free” yo-yos was he likes that it eliminates nearly all risks of getting a dud. For example, would you ever expect to get a YYR that has a burr or imperfection on the inner wall that catches the string? However, I am having trouble thinking of a plausible case where low end machining produces a “problem” other than vibe.
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### Author:  [@Schnayke](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Schnayke)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/13 "2013-02-28T18:21:59Z")
String cutting, bearing not fitting right, string slipadge, Wobble, Axle threads not done properly, many other things I am not prevy too because I don’t make yoyos.
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### Author:  [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/14 "2013-02-28T18:59:32Z")
> [@Schnayke](#):
>
> String cutting, bearing not fitting right, string slipadge, Wobble, Axle threads not done properly, many other things I am not prevy too because I don’t make yoyos.
I honestly don’t intend to be a you-know-what here; however, the majority of those things, when done with precision, contribute to eliminating vibe. :wink: If the manufacturer is precise enough to make sure there are no other issues, you can bet that precision is incidentally going to result in less vibe! Vibe isn’t a feature, it’s a byproduct. Eliminate imprecision and imperfection and you’re also working to eliminate vibe, whether that’s your stated goal or not.
A few of them are not strictly related to machining, also (for example, string cutting seems rather often the result of finish).
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### Author:  [@Schnayke](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Schnayke)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/15 "2013-02-28T20:08:03Z")
I have had yoyos with those problems from the machining alone. Also I have had yoyos with no problem outside vibe. Which I don’t consider a problem. So What you are saying is both true and off point. Its possible to make a yoyo with no problems and it still vibe. I don’t know your history but not all that long ago most metal yoyos had no real issues outside vibe, it had to do with bearing seats, axle length/styles and what not. Now a days it seems most stuff is becoming more standard and that standard is eliminating vibe as a by product. I mean the mg was produced on the most accurate lathe in the world and still vibed. I don’t know how they make them any more, but it wasn’t the machining it’s self that caused it. It’s the axle/bearing seat system they used in them, as well as the caps.
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### Author:  [@GregP](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/GregP)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/16 "2013-02-28T20:40:23Z")
> [@Schnayke](#):
>
> I have had yoyos with those problems from the machining alone. Also I have had yoyos with no problem outside vibe. Which I don’t consider a problem. So What you are saying is both true and off point.
“Off point” or “missing the point”. :wink: We were talking about machining precision, so I was envisioning the bearing seats and threads as a function of the machining process as they are for the majority of high-end yoyos of today. I was not intentionally excluding the (very true!) fact that not all axle systems are machined directly into the halves. Though as long as the parts are machined rather than cast, we’re still talking about machining precision in the end (on that note, I wonder if One Drop’s Side Effects are machined?). I was also definitely missing the factor of caps.
> [@](#):
>
> …I don’t know how they make them any more, but it wasn’t the machining it’s self that caused it. It’s the axle/bearing seat system they used in them, as well as the caps.
Yup, I can see how that would happen. Points taken!
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### Author:  [@SkyHighYo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SkyHighYo)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/17 "2013-02-28T20:52:47Z")
Now I know who to sell my dinged yoyo’s to! It’s not a lost cause after all!
Now, I hope the garbage truck hasn’t come yet…
> [@Schnayke](#):
>
> I mean the mg was produced on the most accurate lathe in the world and still vibed. I don’t know how they make them any more, but it wasn’t the machining it’s self that caused it. It’s the axle/bearing seat system they used in them, as well as the caps.
it’s actually forged magnesium, not machined. Also yeah, it’s probably the design itself that attributes to the vibe.
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### Author:  [@Schnayke](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Schnayke)
#### Post date: [February 28, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/18 "2013-02-28T22:14:48Z")
They are forged then machined. :wink:
Also I meant to delete the off point part Greg sorry about that. :wink:
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### Author:  [@SkyHighYo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/SkyHighYo)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/19 "2013-03-01T03:07:46Z")
ah… thanks for the clarification.
I would have been more impressed if it was just forged, then smithed/beaten into shaped by Charsi in the Rogue Encampment.
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### Author:  [@RGTproyoyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/RGTproyoyo)
#### Post date: [March 1, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/bringing-down-a-high-end-yo-yo/50116/20 "2013-03-01T03:50:11Z")
> [@throwrw](#):
>
> > [@Jcpdx503](#):
> >
> > > [@Yonut](#):
> > >
> > > I only play my metals over soft surfaces, not just capret though, so I have never dinged a high end metal enough that it induces vibe.
>
> Dings themselves very rarely induce vibe, or at least a noticeable about of vibe. people have the impression that small dings cause vibe which is in fact false.Only if you slam it on the ground and bend the axle is when real bad vibe can be caused. Keep in mind though you can bend the axle without “dinging” the yoyo. Ive heard of people hitting their elbow really hard on accident and the axle bends or they slam it on carpet real hard
>
> People worry too much about dinging their yoyos… for sentimental value dings only make it stronger :wink: as for value… with every ding you can see dollars shred off the resale value of your yoyo. thats just how it works. A very lightly dings, perfectly smooth, $100 retail priced yoyo can be worth like $50. Which is a shame.
What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger!!!
Thumbs up anyone??