# Brainstorming a Ti-Vayder logo **URL:** \ **Category:** General Yo-Yo\ **Created:** [March 9, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841 "2019-03-09T02:55:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lukoyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/lukoyo/32/24789_2.png) [@Lukoyo](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Lukoyo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/42 "2019-03-10T17:54:08Z")
Back to the title of this topic. I think it would be very unwise putting any star wars related image on anything Disney related that you plan on selling. Ever heard of Star Wars Theory on YouTube? He made an awesome short film with Darth Vader in it and it got a ton of views and the fans loved it. He didn’t make any money on it and didn’t intent to either, just made it for the fans. Disney got in touch with him and tried to shut it down and there was a lot of back and forth between the maker and the mega company Disney. I think eventually Disney okayed it under stick to rules. Disney would have every right on stopping anyone trying to sell a product with an image of a character they own. Maybe leave the Vader sticker off the box just in case, not worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![TeeJay](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/teejay/32/46016_2.png) [@TeeJay](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TeeJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/43 "2019-03-10T18:00:03Z")
I respect what you’re saying here, and I’d generally agree completely. But I think that in this situation, calling this two wrongs is too much of an oversimplification. Circumstances do matter when the things being compared are so drastically different. Theft, in the technical sense, can apply to anything from the totally acceptable, even justified, all the way to the moraly reprehensible. A homeless father stealing baby formula from walmart isn’t comparable to violently snatching an old lady’s purse Jeff’s project is a selfless attempt to get otherwise unobtainable yoyos to people who would never get to play the “greatest ever”, while also donating all profits. I can’t lump that in with the vsnyyc fiasco as theft is theft. An eye for an eye leaves the world blind. This seems like an attempt at crafting a glass eye to replace the one that’s missing. ^^that sounded a lot more Shakespearean in my head. ---
**Author:** ![iamkeeler](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/iamkeeler/32/49263_2.png) [@iamkeeler](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/iamkeeler)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/44 "2019-03-10T18:13:48Z")
So something like this? (About 10mins of sketching) ![glove%20yoyo](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/a/b/2/ab29598535ffb710ceef3a08eec7c4686fceb254.png) ---
**Author:** ![eternalmetal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/eternalmetal/32/44877_2.png) [@eternalmetal](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/eternalmetal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/45 "2019-03-10T18:14:23Z")
> [@TeeJay](#): > > You’ve got some nerve taking the moral high ground about your design being “stolen”. Stealing is blowing thousands of dollars that belong to cancer charity. You’d be hard pressed to come up with a more contemptible example of “stealing”. > > Regardless, this is not a TiWalker. Multiple changes will be made to improve aspects that were lacking, so this isn’t even a valid criticism. You allude to copyright infringement, if you were to hypothetically hold a patent…on a yoyo shape…which you don’t. These changes would render this imaginary patent useless in a courts eyes, unlike, say, concrete examples of defrauding donors and charities. The fact that this new yoyo is a Ti-Walker copy is indisputable. Everything about this project is meant to recapture the magic of that yoyo, the small improvements being the only true new addition to a copied design. Don’t fool yourself, this is an imitation, even if some of the changes will ultimately improve some aspects of an old design. Also, past altercations are irrelevant. If I stab the man who stole my car, I still commit murder. It also doesnt really matter if this would be a copyright infringement case strong enough to hold up in court. It was original Heath’s design, everyone knows it, nobody is denying it, etc. This type of design stealing would never fly if it were any other yoyo company’s designs being exploited. The only reason im not against it is because it is a completely non-profit endeavor, but I think contact with Heath should have been a pre-requisite to the project. > [@TeeJay](#): > > We all make mistakes, absolutely. Stealing thousands from charity is a bit different than cutting school or cheating on your girlfriend though It is also not the same thing as killing your mother. I think that it is clear from his previous posts that Heath has done all that was possible to right his wrongs (maybe go back and read his posts, they arent hard to find), and deserves to be treated the same as everyone else. He also deserves to feel slighted, even it it looks like things are probably going to turn out well. If you want to stand by your principles and not forgive Heath, then you probably shouldnt be buying this yoyo (im not normally a gambler, but id bet money that you are chomping at the bit to get in on the action). ---
**Author:** ![HVizier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/hvizier/32/48785_2.png) [@HVizier](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/HVizier)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/46 "2019-03-10T18:14:25Z")
That concept is pretty great ---
**Author:** ![Damb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/damb/32/44045_2.png) [@Damb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Damb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/47 "2019-03-10T18:17:16Z")
Vader holding a yoyo = missed opportunity to use the force ---
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/48 "2019-03-10T18:19:08Z")
Notions of “intellectual property” have become gravely distorted over the years. Disney and other entertainment conglomerates have waged an unseen war against the original spirit of IP law for decades, and the result is a very unlevel playing field and a profound misunderstanding in the minds of the average citizen as to what does versus what _ought to_ constitute intellectual property (and how it should be protected). Doing what is legal and doing what is (morally) _right_ are rarely the same thing today. This is especially true when it comes to creative works and the legal protections they do and don’t enjoy. I think the folks who feel that Jeff is–or was–_stealing_ something need to recalibrate their perspective a bit. The folks who feel that Jeff was failing to _respect_ Heath’s creative efforts according to the social contract are perhaps closer to the truth. But since Heath is involved now, there is no reason for any outrage. Time to move on and just let this thing happen without any more stomping on sour grapes and rehashing of the past. ---
**Author:** ![smileypants707](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/smileypants707/32/19045_2.png) [@smileypants707](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/smileypants707)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/49 "2019-03-10T18:24:43Z")
The force is not to be used in vain! He doesn’t just use the force to fight with his saber hands free… just saying ---
**Author:** ![iamkeeler](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/iamkeeler/32/49263_2.png) [@iamkeeler](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/iamkeeler)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/50 "2019-03-10T18:25:42Z")
For the record Heath, as a consumer thank you for what you’ve made and I would be excited to have you more involved in the community again. ---
**Author:** ![TeeJay](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/teejay/32/46016_2.png) [@TeeJay](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TeeJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/51 "2019-03-10T18:25:59Z")
Lol you’re logic is flawed in far too many places for next to address each instance directly. So all these companies making aluminum, ball bearing yoyos, with silicone response pads, removable axles with blasted and anod finishes should stop stealing intellectual property right? I mean they copied all of these vital components from someone else no? Because rhe first guy to come up with these designs seems to have been screwed way more than someone who copied the entire blueprint from someone else, but adjusted the diameter and width by a couple mm ---
**Author:** ![TeeJay](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/teejay/32/46016_2.png) [@TeeJay](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/TeeJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/52 "2019-03-10T18:29:56Z")
I’ll be bowing out now though. Rock on with the Vayder!! ---
**Author:** ![vegabomb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/vegabomb/32/199_2.png) [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/53 "2019-03-10T18:31:55Z")
> [@iamkeeler](#): > > So something like this? (About 10mins of sketching) > > ![glove yoyo.png](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/a/b/2/ab29598535ffb710ceef3a08eec7c4686fceb254.png) I like this. A lot. ---
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/54 "2019-03-10T18:40:07Z")
I like that basic hand pose and camera angle too. But would it look cooler if the yoyo was floating just a little bit above the palm, rather than resting in it? ---
**Author:** ![andy569](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/andy569/32/1256_2.png) [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/55 "2019-03-10T18:40:35Z")
Gotta be floating ---
**Author:** ![Marm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/marm/32/46204_2.png) [@Marm](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Marm)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/56 "2019-03-10T18:42:25Z")
Should have the whole pic black and white. But with bright red string (for his lightsaber) ---
**Author:** ![Damb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/damb/32/44045_2.png) [@Damb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Damb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/57 "2019-03-10T18:42:37Z")
I mean…he’s definitely used it like a boomerang before lmao ---
**Author:** ![andy569](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/andy569/32/1256_2.png) [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/58 "2019-03-10T18:45:23Z")
Yooooo that’s the move ---
**Author:** ![eternalmetal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/eternalmetal/32/44877_2.png) [@eternalmetal](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/eternalmetal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/59 "2019-03-10T18:49:30Z")
> [@zslane](#): > > I think the folks who feel that Jeff is–or was– _stealing_ something need to recalibrate their perspective a bit. The folks who feel that Jeff was failing to _respect_ Heath’s creative efforts according to the social contract are perhaps closer to the truth. But since Heath is involved now, there is no reason for any outrage. When you take a previously designed object and accurately copy its design (he meticulously measured actual Ti-Walkers), you are inevitably stealing the design. China is known for doing this type of thing on a grand scale in many different fields, and I don’t think anyone would refer to them as anything other than stolen designs. Copies. Knockoffs. The only thing they don’t do is try to improve upon the original, and that is literally the only difference in this case. Id agree that things look like they are moving along more smoothly and rightly, but this lack of respect for Heath’s design would only have been possible because of his scarred past. I don’t think people should fool themselves, and im saying this in respect to similar things that may happen in the future: this is design theft and SHOULD be frowned upon despite the intentions. Original designers should be respected. Get their consent before you begin projects like this. > [@TeeJay](#): > > Lol you’re logic is flawed in far too many places for next to address each instance directly. If you want to call me out on flawed logic, please do so. I think you are the one with an illogical perspective. > [@TeeJay](#): > > So all these companies making aluminum, ball bearing yoyos, with silicone response pads, removable axles with blasted and anod finishes should stop stealing intellectual property right? I mean they copied all of these vital components from someone else no? > > Because rhe first guy to come up with these designs seems to have been screwed way more than someone who copied the entire blueprint from someone else, but adjusted the diameter and width by a couple mm Dude, this yoyo so blatantly and intentionally copies the Ti-Walker design in a way that is practically a reproduction. This is not a yoyo that was designed to be anything other than a Ti-Walker clone with minor adjustments. Taking influence from (like what most yoyo manufacturers do) is not the same thing as directly copying a design. > [@The Ti-Vayder Experience](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/the-ti-vayder-experience/299824/1): > > We’ve been meticulous and demanding in being as faithful as possible to the timeless magic of Heath’s original Ti-Walker design Here is the evidence for intent. Just look at the rest of the post. The entire point of it was to re-create the Ti-Walker. This is so damn obvious that I feel like a sailor trying to convince his crew that the ocean is made of water. ---
**Author:** ![andy569](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/andy569/32/1256_2.png) [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/60 "2019-03-10T18:52:37Z")
I don’t buy it. I’m gonna need more evidence that the ocean is made of water. ---
**Author:** ![smileypants707](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/smileypants707/32/19045_2.png) [@smileypants707](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/smileypants707)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841/61 "2019-03-10T18:53:59Z")
It reminds me of the famous dispute between Queen and Vanilla Ice after Vanilla Ice blatantly ripped off the bass line from under pressure. Lol, even if there were changes to the design, they are so tiny and miniscule, It’s still practically the same exact thing. I think the point to understand is that Heath is now a part of this, and for all intents and purposes he seems to be okay with it. So we can all move on and patiently wait for this epic drop [Previous page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/brainstorming-a-ti-vayder-logo/299841.md?page=4)