# Any metal looping yoyos? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Yo-Yo\ **Created:** [August 1, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327 "2018-08-01T17:49:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/1 "2018-08-01T17:49:14Z")
Is there such a thing as a metal looping yoyo? I realize that metal hurts more if it hits you, which is probably more prevalent when practicing 2A, but at some point I figure you get good enough that hitting yourself doesn’t happen anymore and metal becomes something you don’t have to fear. Or am I wrong about that? ---
**Author:** ![vegabomb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/vegabomb/32/199_2.png) [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/2 "2018-08-01T17:51:51Z")
The Tom Kuhn silver bullet or silver bullet 2 could be a looping yoyo. The ILYY Trvth as well. I’d recommend though sticking with yoyos that are designed for looping. ---
**Author:** ![YoYoExpertGarrett](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyoexpertgarrett/32/1543_2.png) [@YoYoExpertGarrett](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/YoYoExpertGarrett)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/3 "2018-08-01T17:56:15Z")
Whimsy made the Lessur a few years back. It was pretty heavy and slow for looping, but possible. [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/a/b/1/ab19073623f68354958019b25d9ed285b45a780a.jpeg "Whimsy LESSUR 2A Session with Asia Yo-Yo Champ !") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPl5a0kbCL0) ---
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/4 "2018-08-01T18:12:04Z")
Sure, but I was wondering why nobody makes a metal yoyo designed specifically for looping. Is it a weight issue? Surely an aluminum looper can be manufactured with thin enough walls that it isn’t any heavier than a plastic looper, right? ---
**Author:** ![AaronW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/aaronw/32/49251_2.png) [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/5 "2018-08-01T18:14:58Z")
AntiYo did 1 set of prototype loopers, made from Titanium. ---
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/6 "2018-08-01T18:19:26Z")
If you filter the yoyos available for purchase (at YYE’s webstore) by play style, there must be nearly a hundred 1A models that are metal (or bimetal). If you filter for 2A, exactly zero are metal. I’m just wondering what the core reason is for this disparity. ---
**Author:** ![vegabomb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/vegabomb/32/199_2.png) [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/7 "2018-08-01T18:23:16Z")
I think it’s that the properties that metal or bi-metal brings to a 1A yoyo aren’t needed in a looping yoyo. The looping yoyo generally is thrown out and returns immediately. A 1A yoyo benefits from a longer spin time that metal or bi-metal construction can produce. I’m sure there are other reasons as well. ---
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/8 "2018-08-01T18:29:37Z")
That makes sense to me. But then I wonder why metal yoyos like the Deep State are so popular. They are responsive, right? If shaped slightly differently, and maybe made slightly lighter, what would prevent them from being good 2A yoyos? Please forgive how naive all this sounds; I am not very familiar with the more subtle needs of 2A play. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/9 "2018-08-01T18:53:09Z")
Starburst response is impossible on a metal yoyo so the feel would be quite different, wouldn’t it? > **[Response System](https://yoyo.fandom.com/wiki/Response_System)** > > The response system is what makes the yo-yo return to the player's hand or 'wake up'. When you throw the yo-yo, the grip of the response system on the string is what transmits the force from the string to the yo-yo body to start the yo-yo spinning as... ---
**Author:** ![andy569](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/andy569/32/1256_2.png) [@andy569](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/andy569)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/10 "2018-08-01T18:54:25Z")
The deep state is made for responsive play and basic stalls and other fixed axle type tricks. In the case of the deep state it brings something to the table because you can distribute weight better with aluminum and it has a bearing so you have longer spin times. Both of which aren’t really necessary in 2a. ---
**Author:** ![AaronW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/aaronw/32/49251_2.png) [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/11 "2018-08-01T18:58:23Z")
starburst response on an aluminum yoyo isn’t impossible, just wouldn’t make a lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/12 "2018-08-01T19:37:40Z")
Right but has _anyone_ ever machined a starburst response on a metal yoyo, _ever?_ I don’t think it exists! ---
**Author:** ![AaronW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/aaronw/32/49251_2.png) [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/13 "2018-08-01T19:50:28Z")
Yes. Oxy1, Henry’s Coral Snake and Yomega Wing Force are a few that come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/14 "2018-08-01T20:08:30Z")
Why is a starburst response system in particular so necessary for 2A? What does it do that a response pad system can’t do? What if you made response pads broader (not thicker, but spanning more of the inner surface of each wing)? ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/15 "2018-08-01T20:16:29Z")
Oh wow interesting, I love to learn these details, thank you for the clarification! > **[Oxygene Oxy1](https://yoyo.fandom.com/wiki/Oxygene_Oxy1)** > > The Oxy1 was the very first yo-yo (not mass produced) by Oxygene. It was a slimline aluminum yo-yo with rubber O-rings on the rims, in addition to a titanium axle with a ball bearing, an adjustable string gap and a starburst response system milled... > **[Henrys Coral Snake](https://yoyo.fandom.com/wiki/Henrys_Coral_Snake)** > > The Coral Snake by Henrys is a yo-yo and a Modified-shape counterpart to the Viper, first released in 1999. It was also the first yo-yo released as part of the AXYS system, featuring a Speed Explosion ball bearing axle. Besides the shape and... > **[Yomega Wing Force](https://yoyo.fandom.com/wiki/Yomega_Wing_Force)** > > The Wing Force by Yomega is an aluminum yo-yo first released in 1998. One of the first modern metal yo-yos, it was Yomega's first metal butterfly-shaped yo-yo, also one of the very first powdercoated (rather than anodized) aluminum yo-yos. Publicity... However note that the Oxy1 “was never released” and the 2010 version of the Coral Snake abandoned the metal starbursts. On top of that, the Wing Force article says > The original version had a reverse (recessed) starburst response system that had caused patent issues with Playmaxx. Because of this, Yomega redesigned the Wing Force and replaced the reverse starburst response system with a series of concentric rings machined into the surface around the area of the bearing. So yeah, starburst response on metal is _extraordinarily rare?_ @zslane I just bought my first looping yoyos about a month ago and I was kinda shocked how different they felt in play … I am only used to silicone response pads and the starbursts were significantly different to me, at least! ---
**Author:** ![AaronW](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/aaronw/32/49251_2.png) [@AaronW](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/AaronW)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/16 "2018-08-01T20:25:58Z")
Yeah, have to mill them, can’t make them on a lathe. And nowadays, doesn’t make sense to use starbursts. Especially as metal starbursts would eat up strings like crazy! I feel like there were a couple other metals with starbursts, just can’t think of what they were. ---
**Author:** ![zslane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/zslane/32/19816_2.png) [@zslane](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/zslane)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/17 "2018-08-01T20:41:17Z")
I’m sure some enterprising designer could engineer a set of smooth metal tines that had the same, if not better, friction characteristics as plastic for the starburst pads. This, of course, assumes that starburst pads are the _only_ style of pads that could work well for 2A, which I’m still skeptical about. But ultimately it seems to me this is less of a design/engineering/manufacturing problem and more of an issue of “why bother?” 2A just doesn’t seem “big” enough (market-wise) to drive the development of metal alternatives, and without a big push in R&D, not enough prototypes will emerge to show their potential for 2A. So I guess the real answer may be that there’s simply not enough marketplace demand to push the 2A envelope in terms of yoyo development–metal yoyo development in particular–any further than the current status quo. Coupled with the prevailing belief that we’ve achieved the absolute pinnacle of looping yoyo design with the ProYo shape, made out of plastic, featuring starburst response pads, and produced with flawless manufacturing. The only thing that seems to differentiate brands and/or models is color and graphics. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/codinghorror/32/8052_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/18 "2018-08-01T20:42:45Z")
Delrin loopers would be awesome, though. Delrin is closer to metal in density at least, and you kinda remove the damage and pain aspect of metal? The RecRev Reverb (2012) is the only one I can find? Oh wait there is the Turning Center Goemon and [YoYoRecreation Negator](http://yoyo.wikia.com/wiki/YoYoRecreation_Negator) as well? But the 2015 version of the Negator was switched away from delrin. I dunno. Wow [that Goemon](http://yoyo.wikia.com/wiki/Turning_Center_Goemon) is really something though. Wooden caps… ---
**Author:** ![Oldthrower3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Oldthrower3000](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Oldthrower3000)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/19 "2018-08-02T21:05:19Z")
I can loop a Deep State, the new AlleyCat, and Confusions about as well as I can loop anything, which isn’t great. They aren’t really designed for that, but they’re responsive enough to do it, especially the Confusion and Confusion GT. Haven’t really been able to loop the OG AlleyCat or the Gamer. ---
**Author:** ![Rosenberg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/rosenberg/32/20465_2.png) [@Rosenberg](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Rosenberg)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327/20 "2018-08-03T01:30:44Z")
@zslane A lot of modern loopers don’t use starburst response. They use pads just like other yo-yos Also, plastic hurts less when it hits you in the face [Next page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/any-metal-looping-yoyos/291327.md?page=2)