# Accusation of Cheating in OWYYC **URL:** \ **Category:** General Yo-Yo\ **Created:** [November 16, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910 "2022-11-16T02:00:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![unklesteve](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/unklesteve/32/106934_2.png) [@unklesteve](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/unklesteve)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/63 "2022-11-20T21:00:17Z")
It’s in discussion. ---
**Author:** ![hieuyoer123](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/hieuyoer123/32/699506_2.png) [@hieuyoer123](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/hieuyoer123)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/64 "2022-12-15T13:24:55Z")
[https://youtu.be/s7FmG5TE9Go](https://youtu.be/s7FmG5TE9Go) His latest live fs for your reference. ---
**Author:** ![Throwto100](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/throwto100/32/87184_2.png) [@Throwto100](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Throwto100)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/65 "2022-12-15T16:12:23Z")
I find it interesting how much slower it seems. He’s definitely a speedy player, but not out of the ordinary from the 5a freestyles I’ve watched. As an aside, he used a song Zach Gormley used in his wyyc winning 2015 freestyle. ---
**Author:** ![rizki\_yoist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/rizki_yoist/32/7925_2.png) [@rizki\_yoist](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/rizki_yoist)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/66 "2022-12-15T18:01:26Z")
Seems like gravity is back to normal. ---
**Author:** ![Psy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9a140/32.png) [@Psy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Psy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/67 "2023-02-23T18:17:39Z")
My man did the combo with the same speed on stage like in the video, just checkout his latest freestyle at Stronger Yoyo Cup X division [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/3/b/f/3bfa2c90f668f8f36ad1a0a7ebb100239b9f8ea0.jpeg "Quoc Anh - X Division 1st - Stronger Yoyo Cup EP.1") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5c3k3-zg1s) ---
**Author:** ![p44company](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/p44company/32/253678_2.png) [@p44company](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/p44company)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/68 "2023-02-23T18:21:25Z")
so he’s indeed a 5a speed god ---
**Author:** ![UnluckyOwl53](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/unluckyowl53/32/190567_2.png) [@UnluckyOwl53](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/UnluckyOwl53)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/69 "2023-02-23T18:26:12Z")
It pains me to disagree with someone that also has the D7 as their fav yoyo but this still doesn’t look as un-natural as his routine that is alleged to be sped up Still an amazing routine ---
**Author:** ![yoyodoc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyodoc/32/48820_2.png) [@yoyodoc](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yoyodoc)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/70 "2023-02-23T18:37:42Z")
No doubt I’m out of loop on this one. Did the DQ stick on this guy? He Got booted because a few folks decided he couldn’t be ‘so fast’? Last thing I remember was one of the guys from this forum, has his friend(that Edits videos as his Occupation) watched the video over 23 times, looking for technical evidence there might be frame rate tampering……… and found ‘nothing’. So… what was the final judgement? Sorry, if I’m the only person that doesn’t know what finally happened…🧐 ---
**Author:** ![Grendel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/grendel/32/92975_2.png) [@Grendel](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Grendel)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/71 "2023-02-23T18:42:01Z")
Me too. Thankfully I really don’t care. Got bigger fish to fry. ---
**Author:** ![LeftyThrower24](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/leftythrower24/32/264593_2.png) [@LeftyThrower24](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/LeftyThrower24)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/72 "2023-02-23T18:51:35Z")
My friend had come to the conclusion that it was most likely some framerate drops caused by not so great lighting/camera/phone to film with. I think he’s just flat out fast the more I watched it ---
**Author:** ![MaximShoots](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/maximshoots/32/171131_2.png) [@MaximShoots](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MaximShoots)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/73 "2023-02-26T08:25:38Z")
I remain of the opinion that OWYYC dropped the ball on handling this. I hope to see Quoc back at the next OWYYC. The man is a 5a god. ---
**Author:** ![p44company](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/p44company/32/253678_2.png) [@p44company](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/p44company)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/74 "2023-02-26T09:15:35Z")
maybe even better at WYYC Osaka if he decided to compete there that would be wild, dunno if there will be a asia pacific this year since I was also stoked to see the competitors. ---
**Author:** ![Hanker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/hanker/32/628221_2.png) [@Hanker](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Hanker)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/75 "2023-03-02T06:07:22Z")
> [@yoyodoc](#): > > He Got booted because a few folks decided he couldn’t be ‘so fast’? I don’t think it’s so much about his speed as it is about his behaviour. He refused to send additional videos of his routine to prove that he wasn’t cheating, which is highly suspicious, as evidenced below. > [@unklesteve](#): > > We requested raw video files, which he never provided. We requested a new video with a clock in the background, which he never provided. We even corresponded directly with his sponsor, who encouraged him to work with us, but he repeatedly declined to provide the additional video we requested. > [@unklesteve](#): > > Yes, any time a player submits a video that interferes with our ability to judge it, we request that they resubmit and we make clear what criteria need to be followed in order for us to consider the video “fairly judgable”. > [@unklesteve](#): > > To my recollection this is the only time a player has been requested to do this and refused. * * * > [@MaximShoots](#): > > I remain of the opinion that OWYYC dropped the ball on handling this. I don’t think they dropped the ball on handling this, especially when the player himself refuses to comply with contest rules and regulations. If you want to compete in a competition, then you need to respect and comply with the rules and regulations of the competition. Failure to comply would simply result in a disqualification. It isn’t unfair as he refused to comply with the rules and regulations that literally every other competitor has complied with. It would be unfair to the other competitors if he wasn’t disqualified. ---
**Author:** ![MaximShoots](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/maximshoots/32/171131_2.png) [@MaximShoots](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MaximShoots)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/76 "2023-03-02T07:55:38Z")
> [@mable](#): > > that he had to do an in-person routine in front of some judges, and was even faster during that? Lets be honest. People who are going for OWYYC, are legendary in their own regard, however expecting anyone who has already grinded their way through their final multiple times to get a good video of it. Then to be told “hey do it again with a clock”, after proving their innocence in a LIVE situation… like really? I’d have a huge attitude about that if anything I’d say its natural to have a massive attitude about such a situation 😅 I maintain the opinion of a OWYYC dropping the ball, and really through my eyes treating a player unfairly. ---
**Author:** ![unklesteve](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/unklesteve/32/106934_2.png) [@unklesteve](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/unklesteve)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/77 "2023-03-02T16:01:11Z")
I cannot see how we could possibly have done any more work to help this player. After his first video we had people who were skeptical and claimed he was cheating. We reviewed his entry and didn’t agree, but also understood that the basic social contract between players and a contest is that _the players have to believe they are being judged fairly_. If they don’t believe this, the entire social contract is invalid and there is no point in us running contests. So Hiro and other members of our team had a live Zoom session with him to watch him play in order to fairly determine yes, this kid is wicked fast and it’s very plausible that his camera setup wasn’t good enough to catch it, making it appear sped up. Fine by us, we understand, moving on. THEN in the next round it looked even farther out of whack than the first time and we decided again, people are coming to us saying “he is cheating” and we cannot give the benefit of the doubt because _if players believe the contest is not fair there is no reason to continue having contests_. So we bent over backwards to work with the player, his sponsor did the same, and he ultimately refused to cooperate in a way that allowed us to unequivocally state “Yes, it’s all by the book, his entry is good”. If we can’t say that, we can’t judge it. There is literally no other fair way to handle this, and if you you can’t see or understand that then I’m not sure what else to tell you. A large team of people put in a lot of unpaid extra work to help one single player here. What else would you have us do? ---
**Author:** ![MaximShoots](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/maximshoots/32/171131_2.png) [@MaximShoots](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/MaximShoots)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/78 "2023-03-02T18:49:54Z")
> [@unklesteve](#): > > So Hiro and other members of our team had a live Zoom session with him to watch him play in order to fairly determine yes, this kid is wicked fast and it’s very plausible that his camera setup wasn’t good enough to catch it, making it appear sped up. Fine by us, we understand, moving on. Let me preface this with: this horse has long sense died and this just an analysis of what I’ve seen given the information I have. I will also step off the box of treating the player unfairly that was definitely a bad take. Based on this quote above: 1. Judges were able to fairly determine that the player was in fact extremely fast. 2. Found it plausible that the hardware was at fault. At this point, wouldn’t your investigation path be into the hardware aspect ie. going frame by frame of the video like many of us in here did? If people were saying that Quoc cheated why wasn’t the response: “We have already conducted a live review and determined the player is extremely fast. It is plausible that there is a hardware issue which we are looking into”. Cheating accusations can be just as dangerous as cheating itself. As for how the player handles the response, I’m on your side, but it was also understandable to see someone upset about having to re-record a final entry, something that changes each time they hit record which is also a high stress entry. However personal egos should not be an excuse for lack of cooperation/ lack of participation. Here’s another point to ponder: if you added the clock and the recording still reflected the hardware issues we are making note of. Then the clock will also display skips and jumps which would look unnatural. Which could run the risk of possible further punishment. At this point it would be extremely necessary to go frame by frame to determine if it was a speed up or a frame skip/drop. This is a dead horse we are debating here but I am interested in how the group might be adjusting/changing any rules based on this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Psy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9a140/32.png) [@Psy](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Psy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/79 "2023-03-02T19:23:05Z")
So he didn’t sped up, he got kicked out of the list because he refused to cooperate about re-film with you guys. I remember he posted a statement about his situation somewhere before, which confused me a bit and i think it confused others as well. In my opinion, you should also confirm that his video is not accelerating, he was disqualified for not cooperating when his video was suspected. It would make all proplems clear and solved easier, no one will be criticized. ---
**Author:** ![vegabomb](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/vegabomb/32/199_2.png) [@vegabomb](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/vegabomb)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/80 "2023-03-02T19:23:44Z")
> [@MaximShoots](#): > > Cheating accusations can be just as dangerous as cheating itself. I think that’s kind of Steve’s point. If you declared him a winner and a number of folks thought he may have cheated it kills the integrity of online contests. My two cents. ---
**Author:** ![Hanker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/hanker/32/628221_2.png) [@Hanker](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/Hanker)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 6:53am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/81 "2023-03-06T06:53:27Z")
> [@MaximShoots](#): > > At this point, wouldn’t your investigation path be into the hardware aspect ie. going frame by frame of the video like many of us in here did? Running a yoyo contest is by no means a small feat. Do you really think that the OWYYC team has the time to go through his video frame by frame to verify that the video wasn’t sped up? They have hundreds of other videos to go through and judge. Furthermore, what makes you think that the OWYYC team would have sufficient technical knowledge to prove that the video wasn’t sped up? After all, they are yoyo players, not professional video editors. Not everyone has the technical knowledge that you do to know whether something is sped up or just has some dropped frames. As such, they wouldn’t be able to definitively prove to the audience and the other competitors that Quoc wasn’t cheating with their limited technical knowledge, which is the most important part as Steve mentioned: > [@unklesteve](#): > > We reviewed his entry and didn’t agree, but also understood that the basic social contract between players and a contest is that _the players have to believe they are being judged fairly_. If they don’t believe this, the entire social contract is invalid and there is no point in us running contests. * * * > [@MaximShoots](#): > > If people were saying that Quoc cheated why wasn’t the response: “We have already conducted a live review and determined the player is extremely fast. It is plausible that there is a hardware issue which we are looking into”. This was likely already made known to the other competitors as evidenced below: > [@mable](#): > > I read that he had to do an in-person routine in front of some judges, and was even faster during that? But people still said he was cheating and refused to believe what the OWYYC team has to say. If the OWYYC team decided to let him win, or be placed in a high position like top 10, then people would perceive the integrity of the OWYYC as compromised, as what they considered a cheating player made it to such a high position. This is exactly what the OWYYC team wanted to avoid at all costs, since it diminishes the value of contests and people may grow disillusioned and not participate in future contests since they no longer view contests as fair anymore. * * * > [@MaximShoots](#): > > Here’s another point to ponder: if you added the clock and the recording still reflected the hardware issues we are making note of. Then the clock will also display skips and jumps which would look unnatural. Which could run the risk of possible further punishment. At this point it would be extremely necessary to go frame by frame to determine if it was a speed up or a frame skip/drop. I highly doubt that this would be the case, considering that clocks are much slower, with most of them only updating every second, which is far slower than the movements made by Quoc. Even if the frames are skipped or dropped, it’d most likely still look just fine. [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/yoyoexpert1/original/4X/a/c/4/ac4f128ced16e0e62038f4082f819a324bda1025.jpeg " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhifDc12Ic4) ---
**Author:** ![yoyodoc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forums.yoyoexpert.com/yoyodoc/32/48820_2.png) [@yoyodoc](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/u/yoyodoc)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2023, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910/82 "2023-03-06T08:31:30Z")
Ok… I am most likely the least qualified to even have an opinion on this subject…. But, then again, from a logical viewpoint, here is my view none-the-less\> When the authentic value of the video came in to question, the player either knew he was cooked…. Or felt very, very embarrassed or insulted by anyone suggesting his potential deliberate dishonesty. \<\> I don’t know which? At first thought, when I heard Steve reached out to him and suggested at least a few different options to basically prove there was nothing funny going on…… then I immediately thought, ‘Well, this guy declined to jump through the appropriate hoop(s) to prove he is ‘indeed that fast’. But, then, I also considered that the player may have felt so insulted by being accused of ‘pulling a fast one’, he may have just concluded that he didn’t feel compelled to prove anything, because he knew he didn’t do anything wrong(theory). So… it is possible, he didn’t have anything to hide, so he didn’t feel he had anything to prove. I don’t know the player, so I am only looking at this logically. I ‘do’ know Steve, though. He knows that anything short of doing something right, is doing it wrong. As has already been stated, the internet of online Contests or any Contests, is creating a level playing field and making every effort to absolutely minimize anything that might jeopardize the Integrity of the Competition. It may seem like the player got hit with a mud pie and just felt too insulted to prove anything. But being unwilling to comply with the options he was given, if he had nothing to hide, he could have stepped up and complied. [Previous page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.yoyoexpert.com/t/accusation-of-cheating-in-owyyc/365910.md?page=5)